15:50:22 < rasengan> Freenode limited accepted the resignations of several members of freenode staff in the past few days and will be publishing a public message about the whole situation later today.
15:50:45 < krishan> I'm just gonna leave it unanswered then.
15:50:58 < rasengan> to those who resigned - if there was a change from the original position please make sure to notify the board and reapply!
15:51:00 < superkuh> Aw. So it wasn't just a prank?
15:51:01 < mefistofeles> rasengan: when is this going to be published?
15:51:15 < mefistofeles> sorry, I mean where
15:51:20 < rasengan> later today or possibly your morning depending on time zone
15:51:33 < mason> FWIW, I came in and checked the topic.
15:51:49 -!- hussam [~hussam@unaffiliated/hussam] has quit [Quit: leaving]
15:52:14 < MIF> hi
15:52:58 -!- debabrata [~debabrata@2409:4052:228a:b1c2:dd21:b7dd:7793:8cf7] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:53:16 -!- tonymec [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/tonymec] has joined #freenode [account tonymec] [realname Tony Mechelynck]
15:53:30 <@Fuchs> rasengan: there have been no resignations.
15:53:31 -!- tonymec is now known as tonymec|away
15:53:37 <@Fuchs> rasengan: see the first few lines of my letter.
15:53:56 < rasengan> Fuchs: if you can send me a retraction via email that would be great as the copies I have don’t seem to indicate that.
15:54:10 < pgimeno> where will that be published?
15:54:11 -!- Guest20 [~textual@103.215.168.1] has joined #freenode [account littlepython] [realname Textual User]
15:54:14 < MIF> wait someone is resigning?
15:54:18 <@Fuchs> rasengan: I work for freenode the IRC network, the freenode IRC network that I have been working for more than 10 years, and hell will freeze over twice before I will work for you
15:54:20 <@amdj> The copies you have were not sent to you by us, and you know that.
15:54:32 <@Fuchs> and you won't be getting anything from me that you recently demanded, neither access to anything, nor any e-mails
15:54:33 < rasengan> Thanks however for reconsidering. Freenode is important to us all and that’s the common ground that we should always focus on in this time.
15:54:44 < roadkill>  /whois rasengan
15:55:00 <@Fuchs> rasengan: if it was important to you, you would have done none of this.
15:55:08 -!- sagerking[m] [sagerkingm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-sxiqlfpajlnjrhsl] has joined #freenode [realname org.matrix:sagerking]
15:55:37 < rasengan> Fuchs: Lol?
15:55:40 < mefistofeles> and this is what I meant when I said "when shit hits the fan"...
15:55:42 <@Fuchs> if it is important to you, let it go. For anything else: see that draft of mine that got leaked, there is nothing more to say, really.
15:56:09 < rasengan> Fuchs: Your draft is lies and because I care I’m stopping you and your team from your hostile takeover of freenode.
15:56:25 < squirrel> o_o
15:56:38 < MIF> rasengan: HE WORKS FOR FREENODE
15:56:43 < MIF> HE HIS FREENODE
15:56:50 < mefistofeles> +m ?
15:57:01 < moonshin1> let them talk
15:57:08 < rasengan> You ban abusively, and haven’t really helped freenode at all until now. Freenode policies have been shaped for you and your posse to extract value and now you’re holding it hostage while asking people to go to another network.
15:57:12 < rasengan> Further fracturing irc.
15:57:13 < mefistofeles> sure, we shouldn't be disturbing it
15:57:36 -!- bandali [~bandali@fsf/emeritus/bandali] has joined #freenode [account bandali] [realname Amin Bandali]
15:57:48 -!- DarkRTA [~Dark@unaffiliated/darkrta] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:57:51 <@Fuchs> MIF: have been, for the past ten years, and gladly will continue, for that freenode.
15:58:01 < rasengan> I supported freenode with lots of funding and legal support including for issues you caused in mine test and other places.
15:58:06 <@jess> 2021-03-15 21:21:47 <rasengan> I have not, am not, and will not interfere with the operations of freenode outside of when asked for help [...]
15:58:07 < rasengan> You specifically, Fuchs.
15:58:08 -!- trinityblade [~textual@adsl-76-211-177-0.dsl.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
15:58:09 <@jess> aged like fucking milk that one
15:58:21 -!- Adam [Adam@unaffiliated/adam-] has joined #freenode [account Adam] [realname Adam]
15:58:21 -!- davie [~davie@swift/founder/davie] has joined #freenode [account davie] [realname davie]
15:58:22 < Khaytsus> MIF: Sit back and watch
15:58:22 < Joel> jess LOL
15:58:39 < rasengan> Jess: that is absolutely a statement I made. I wouldn’t be involved if you and tomaw didn’t stage a hostile takeover and drive Christel out.
15:58:49 -!- toasty_oats [~toasty_oa@2605:8d80:6e0:f4c3:e3ae:aedb:17ec:9384] has joined #freenode [realname toasty_oats]
15:58:49 -!- zoite [~zoite@unaffiliated/zoite] has joined #freenode [account zoite] [realname zoite]
15:59:01 < Joel> this reminds me of being 11 and on efnet.
15:59:04  * Joel grabs popcorn
15:59:08 -!- Humblebee [~Uhh@41.234.114.40] has quit [Quit: o no]
15:59:11 < pgimeno> rasengan: are you https://github.com/realrasengan ?
15:59:11 -!- unknown_lamer [~clinton@174.99.11.60] has joined #freenode [account unknown_lamer] [realname Clinton Ebadi]
15:59:22 <@jess> i can't imagine she'd like you lying in her name
15:59:26 < rasengan> Yes pgimeno
15:59:33 < pgimeno> thanks
15:59:41 < LondonNoTrust> I would just like to say I am enjoying that people are getting their emotions out and creating drama, it's good convo.
15:59:42 -!- DarkRTA [~Dark@unaffiliated/darkrta] has joined #freenode [account DarkRTA] [realname Dark]
15:59:42 < rasengan> Jess oh ok. I’m lying. Right.
15:59:44 < LondonNoTrust> :enjoy:
16:00:11  * roadkill reaches over into Joel's popcorn bucket
16:00:15 < [smlckz]> rasengan: how big is the scope of the legal matter and how much are the normal users will be affected by the proceedings?
16:00:24 < Joel> roadkill don't go too deep, you might get a surpris
16:00:32 -!- nanoconan [~IceChat95@fctnnbsc38w-47-55-92-98.dhcp-dynamic.fibreop.nb.bellaliant.net] has joined #freenode [realname The Chat Cool People Use]
16:00:33 < rasengan> Normal users will not be affected outside of the former staff spamming their network.
16:00:34 < roadkill> As long as it's buttered up...
16:00:37 -!- Rudd0 [~Rudd0@185.189.115.103] has joined #freenode [account Rudd0] [realname None]
16:00:49 <@Fuchs> who would put butter on popcorn
16:00:51 -!- valeness [~weechat@unaffiliated/valeness] has joined #freenode [account Valeness] [realname weechat]
16:00:57 <@Fuchs> salt, okay. Suger, if you really have to. But: butter?
16:00:59 -!- OoCeVH_v [~powerful@168.235.71.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
16:01:00 < rasengan> I have been custodian of freenode for many years. Freenode ran well. That will continue beyond this for sure.
16:01:01 < Joel> Fuchs anyone wanting to pull the popcorn trick.
16:01:28 -!- FUZxxl [~fuz@fuz.su] has joined #freenode [account fuzxxl] [realname Robert Clausecker]
16:01:31 <@Fuchs> Joel: no thanks, this channel is safe for work
16:01:34 -!- bcoppens [~bartcopp@kde/coppens] has joined #freenode [account BCoppens] [realname Bart Coppens]
16:01:39 < squirrel> wait is this here Andrew Lee
16:01:45 < mefistofeles> I suggest parties just state the facts and evidence in a public verififiable way... or else, deal with this internally and inform users what is going on once you reach a consensus... or inform if you don't reach one and why...
16:01:47 -!- AppleTor [~AppleTor@2404:8000:1003:4c3f:5cc2:1728:bccf:407d] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
16:02:00 -!- Thedarkb-Desktop [~beno@2001:bb6:b404:188f:4df5:c58f:15d0:2af8] has joined #freenode [account Thedarkb] [realname realname]
16:02:02 < rasengan> Fuchs: The freenode limited board does not recognize you as a volunteer or any staff or operator of freenode.  Please remove yourself from ops and operator status.  Thank you.
16:02:04 < rasengan> :)
16:02:13 < LondonNoTrust> rasengan, to be fair, freenode didn't really run that well.   i mean yeah the servers stayed up, but it was full of abusive and biased moderations.
16:02:20 -!- micmac [~micmac@unaffiliated/micmac/x-2360826] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:02:25 < rasengan> I know
16:02:35 < rasengan> We will work on that with the community.
16:02:41 <@Fuchs> rasengan: and I do not recognize the freenode limited board as anything, I'm afraid there is no contract between me and it, and I've been oper on this network for longer than freenode limited even exists. Request denid.
16:02:42 -!- kemal [~kemal@unaffiliated/kemal] has joined #freenode [account kemal] [realname kemal]
16:02:44 < rasengan> I was hands off until now so I apologize.
16:02:59 < MIF> what is freenode imited
16:03:15 -!- plains [~plains@unaffiliated/plains] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb1+focal2 - https://znc.in]
16:03:19 < LondonNoTrust> Thanks, i accept your apology, even though you don't owe me one.
16:03:24 < ljharb> wtf is a "freenode board"
16:03:39 -!- sigrid [~ftrvxmtrx@ftrv.se] has joined #freenode [account sigrid] [realname Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir]
16:03:40 < nimue> kloeri: hello
16:03:48 -!- pyratebeard [~pyratebea@104.248.161.132] has joined #freenode [account pyratebeard] [realname pyratebeard]
16:03:50 -!- gnomus [~gnomus@185.169.233.10] has joined #freenode [realname gnomus]
16:03:58 -!- logiz [~logiz@pool-100-2-192-142.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #freenode [account logiz] [realname logiz]
16:04:18 < zoite> can i be on the freenode board
16:04:20 -!- plains [~plains@unaffiliated/plains] has joined #freenode [account plains] [realname plains]
16:04:22 < rasengan> The freenode users, groups and so forth deserve representation. I was going to wait until Monday but I’ll post the decentralization of freenode plan today in a few hours or so.
16:04:30 -!- voidpi [~voidpi@unaffiliated/estulticia] has joined #freenode [account estulticia] [realname voidpi]
16:04:35 < rasengan> This will be resolved and signed by the board and put into action.
16:04:36 -!- jescis-Desktop1 [~jescis@c-66-177-166-232.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #freenode [account jescis] [realname Jeremiah Scott Norris]
16:04:40 < Joel> I'd rather sit on something comfortable, a board seems painful
16:04:42 < valeness> I can vouch for zoite. He'd make a good board member
16:04:43 -!- Angelo_Pisani_ak [5d1d613a@58.97.29.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:04:46 -!- Bublik [~Bublik@bzq-82-81-85-239.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
16:04:48 -!- micmac [~micmac@unaffiliated/micmac/x-2360826] has joined #freenode [account micmac] [realname micmac]
16:04:57 < voidpi> so, freenode is done https://p.haavard.me/407 ?
16:05:02 < terpri> ljharb, freenode *limited* board, i.e. the board of directors of a legal entity associated with freenode: https://opencorporates.com/companies/gb/10308021
16:05:10 < rasengan> anyone who is currently or holds themselves out to be freenode staff may contact me by message if you want to be involved with freenode go forward. I’ll forgive everyone including you Fuchs
16:05:13 -!- elf` [dark@underworld.monster] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:05:18 -!- grawity [grawity@star.nullroute.eu.org] has joined #freenode [account grawity] [realname Mantas Mikulėnas <grawity@gmail.com>]
16:05:28 <@FireFly> I don't really know what you're expecting
16:05:28 < rasengan> hioe to hear from you all and I’ll have the draft plan posted shortly. Thanks for your patience everyone and thanks for using freenode.
16:05:35 < rasengan> We are happy to serve you.
16:05:42 < ljharb> lol what a weirdly specific way to troll
16:05:43 < nimue> Oh hej FireFly god kväll
16:05:45 < pgimeno> as a user and an advocate of freedom, I don't want to belong to a network that goes non-free, so I hope that the situation is clearly explained so I can take an informed decision on whether to stay or leave
16:05:51 < nimue> sorry, I don't know how to say good afternoon.
16:05:56 < superkuh> rasengan, are there other people that agree with you? Where are they?
16:05:57 < aab_> are all them resignations fake
16:06:08 <@Fuchs> aab_: no, but they were drafts and got leaked
16:06:08 -!- dvzrv [~dvzrv@archlinux/developer/dvzrv] has joined #freenode [account dvzrv] [realname David Runge]
16:06:10 <@kline> aab_, no freenode staffer has resigned yet, no
16:06:20 <@kline> they were just leaked drafts for the worst case scenario
16:06:20 < Church-> Oh heya superkuh
16:06:24 <@Fuchs> aab_: as of now, nobody resigned and freenode is still ran by the same volunteers that ran it for the past 20 years
16:06:28 -!- elf [dark@underworld.monster] has joined #freenode [realname *]
16:06:37 < aab_> oops damn search engines
16:06:41 < Nei> whos' on the board of rasengan's freenode ltd company except for rasengan ?
16:06:44 <@FireFly> nimue: g'evening
16:06:47 < superkuh> I'm ignorant, I admit, but right now it looks like it is one person associated with a limited liability corporation versus a bunch of people.
16:06:50 -!- elf is now known as Guest63347
16:06:51 < superkuh> But surely that's not true.
16:06:55 < aab_> should have kept them in a text file on someone's desktop then they would never have been cached
16:07:02 -!- fe80 [~fe80@gateway/tor-sasl/fe80] has joined #freenode [account fe80] [realname realname]
16:07:05 < Church-> Ditto what superkuh said.
16:07:07  * nimue waves happily and wishes FireFly a nice weekend! Ha en god helg?
16:07:07 <@Fuchs> aab_: ah well
16:07:13 -!- adde9708 [uid139358@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ketkymyricpitdeg] has joined #freenode [realname adde9708]
16:07:15 -!- Tellah [~Tellah@unaffiliated/tellah] has joined #freenode [account Tellah] [realname Tellah]
16:07:21 <@jess> coulda woulda shoulda
16:07:26 <@kline> mistakes happen
16:07:26 < Dwarf> didn't
16:07:26 -!- lagbox [~devnull@freenode/staff/lagbox] has joined #freenode [account lagbox] [realname that guy]
16:07:27 -!- mode/#freenode [+o lagbox] by ChanServ
16:07:31 < Church-> Indeed
16:07:33 < Dwarf> jess: do you listen to kpop?
16:07:35 <@mniip> maybe I shouldn't've linked ~/Desktop to /var/www
16:07:36 < roadkill> my big question about what is going on is this, and it's pretty important... what's your favorite color?
16:07:37 -!- jackhill [~jackhill@marsh.hcoop.net] has joined #freenode [account jackhill] [realname Jack Hill]
16:07:42 < Church-> Not the worst thing accidentally linked
16:07:44 < aab_> drafts are good but does anyone know when libera.chat will be available?
16:07:51 < MIF> mniip: lol
16:07:51 -!- powerhouse [~powerhous@2604:3d08:777f:f70::e32d] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
16:07:55 <@emilsp> roadkill: green
16:08:02 -!- kreiGT [~kreig@45.76.15.1] has joined #freenode [account kreiGT] [realname Kreig]
16:08:02 < superkuh> Welp, anyway, make sure to mention all the human people on your side when you put up the statement, rasengan.
16:08:03 <@jess> mine's purple
16:08:05 -!- sincorchetes [4f98d034@fedora/sincorchetes] has quit [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat]
16:08:05 -!- adde9708 [uid139358@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ketkymyricpitdeg] has logged in to account adde9708
16:08:11 <@mniip> roadkill, acidic green is good
16:08:14 < MIF> Church-: once I thought I removed my entire /home file
16:08:22 < nimue> mine is blue
16:08:29 < MIF> I just moved it to /var/www/html/home
16:08:35 -!- haavard [root@haavard.me] has joined #freenode [account haavard] [realname Håvard Pettersson]
16:08:39 < Khaytsus> MIF: I've done rm -fR ./ path before
16:08:39 < kemal> roadkill: light green
16:08:44 < Khaytsus> SOmehow injected a space in it
16:08:46 < voidpi> so who are these morons trying to take over freenode?
16:08:49 < Church-> MIF: Heh
16:09:03 < logiz> magenta
16:09:15 -!- pyratebeard [~pyratebea@104.248.161.132] has left #freenode []
16:09:18 -!- Jfreegman [~Jfreegman@unaffiliated/jfreegman] has joined #freenode [account jfreegman] [realname Jfreegman]
16:09:23 <@Fuchs> blue, definitely blue
16:09:27 <@Fuchs> (what are we talking about?)
16:09:47 < Dwarf> The way you like your waffles, Fuchs
16:09:51 < mefistofeles> Fuchs: favorite state of mind... blue!
16:10:01 -!- sigrid [~ftrvxmtrx@ftrv.se] has left #freenode []
16:10:10 < Foxboron> Is there anywhere I can read up on the relationship between Freenode the network and the company Freenode Limited?
16:10:10 < nimue> favorite colors
16:10:10 <@emilsp> sique burn, Dwarf
16:10:10 < FUZxxl> love me some nice Freebode drama
16:10:15 -!- stevenm [~stevenm@195.62.201.126] has joined #freenode [realname realname]
16:10:17 < zoite> what if freenode staff and the new company had a tournament like mortal kombat for ownership
16:10:31 <@jess> i'm pretty good at mario kart
16:10:43 -!- _till_ [~till@unaffiliated/till/x-7804721] has joined #freenode [account _till_] [realname till haxor]
16:10:43 < mefistofeles> I vote for jess
16:10:46 < zoite> i meant a real fighting tournament not video games
16:10:47 < terpri> Nei, rasengan is the sole active board member, according to https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/10308021/officers
16:10:48 < betawaffle> I’ve been pretty happy with the freenode staff so far.
16:10:51 -!- cthulchu [~Cthulchu@193.194.107.250] has joined #freenode [account cthulchu] [realname realname]
16:10:54 < aab_> yey mario kart
16:11:04 -!- exvicesindaco [~Username@unaffiliated/exvicesindaco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:11:07 < aab_> it's a me jessyyyy
16:11:24 < terpri> (and christel was a board member but evidently resigned in march)
16:11:31 <@kline> terpri, the big question i suppose is, what does freenode ltd have to do with freenode-the-volunteer-run-irc-network
16:11:35 < mefistofeles> "Denver, Colerado"
16:11:53 -!- kurahaupo [~kurahaupo@unaffiliated/kurahaupo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
16:11:59 < rasengan> Kline just ownership, as your letter said ;)
16:12:00 < mefistofeles> kline: indeed
16:12:16 < superkuh> ownership of the trademarks?
16:12:17 < terpri> kline, i have no idea. i was just curious about Nei's question
16:12:19 -!- Romarain [~Romarain@119.12.203.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:12:21 < moonshin1> from my pov, freenode has been working great, so that credit should go to the people doing the work of running things
16:12:23 < rasengan> Which ahain doesn’t matter other than yoh and your posse takeover attempt.
16:12:31 < rasengan> I won’t let you guys mess freenode up.
16:12:32 < aab_> but if freenode ltd is on companies house would that not mean freenode is a business and it is making money
16:12:32 -!- catgirl [~rmb@archlinux/trusteduser/coderobe] has joined #freenode [account coderobe] [realname Mara~]
16:12:48 < superkuh> rasengan, that's and all. But is it really only you taking this stance?
16:12:52 < superkuh> Er, +cool
16:12:57 < rasengan> It’s not making money aab unless you call my support revenue (it’s donation)
16:13:11 -!- dexbot [~s2r7BI7Mu@67.209.248.232] has joined #freenode [account dexbot] [realname realname]
16:13:12 < betawaffle> rasengan: what exactly are they attempting to do?
16:13:27 < mefistofeles> rasengan: non-rofit shouldn't make money
16:13:30 < mefistofeles> *profit
16:13:34 < rasengan> superkuh actuallt there are many who take this position I’m sure you will too once you see what transpired
16:13:44 < aab_> if it's a non profit why is it a ltd company lol
16:13:45 < superkuh> Okay. Looking forward to more info.
16:13:47 < rasengan> It’s not making money mefistofeles see above :)
16:13:47 < Joel> rasengan if you take over freenode, I'm out, that's all I have to say, you're not exactly displaying class.
16:14:08 < ldm> I'm still not seeing the link between rasengan and Freenode Ltd on companies house...
16:14:13 < mplsCorwin> rasengan: may I ask about the motion to strike against Freenode LLC?  I actually got +b in this channel asking if, for example, the Privacy Policy (which references the LLC, busn addr of, etc) will be updated based on this.
16:14:18 < rasengan> Joel - no problem. After waiting 2 months and getting slandered I don’t think there’s a such thing as class.
16:14:32 -!- ace_me [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/ace-me/x-814638] has quit [Quit: Thank you]
16:14:34 < terpri> ldm, iiuc rasengan is andrew lee
16:14:47 -!- reber_ is now known as reber
16:14:48 < LondonNoTrust> betawaffle, you haven't been an exemplary channel mod -- you stood by and did nothing while abusive mods banned people on #bitcoin and bitcoin-* for like 10 years now.
16:14:48 < Joel> nobody wants an 11 year old for a leader
16:14:51 -!- TaLaS [~powerful@168.235.71.142] has joined #freenode [realname powerful ;-)]
16:14:52 < rasengan> Mpls: that’s ridiculous. You should it get banned fir asking a question
16:14:52 < ldm> right okay, I thought there was some proof I was missing
16:14:55 < zoite> will Vice be covering this story?
16:15:07 < moonshin1> zoite: no, tmz
16:15:10 < mefistofeles> I mean, my account is even older than rasengan ... why are we letting this user intervene over freenode's future over Fuchs or similar? There is information that's missing here
16:15:11 < LondonNoTrust> and that goes for all of the dumb mods on #bitcoin* channels
16:15:13 -!- Rudd0 [~Rudd0@185.189.115.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
16:15:18 < Joel> zoite hopefully springer comes out of retirement
16:15:26 -!- kemal [~kemal@unaffiliated/kemal] has left #freenode []
16:15:28 -!- Baytuch [~pi@adsl.my-server.km.ua] has joined #freenode [account Baytuch] [realname pi]
16:15:29 -!- g0_ [~g@5.2.79.161] has joined #freenode [realname g]
16:15:35 < slimdaddy> rasengan’s favorite color is red because that’s all he sees, clearly with those typos. Take a breath
16:15:50 <@dho> can we please keep this chat on focused on assisting freenode users? thanks.
16:15:50 < Khaytsus> mplsCorwin: funny, I don't see that in my logs ;)
16:16:00 -!- janik [~janik@gateway/tor-sasl/janik] has joined #freenode [account janik] [realname Janik Rabe]
16:16:12 < superkuh> dho, without freenode the users will have a bad time.
16:16:20 < betawaffle> LondonNoTrust: what I’ve seen hasn’t been abusive, but I suppose that could be argued.
16:16:25 < mplsCorwin> Khaytsus: I can find receipts if we are really doing this.  I make them pretty hard to get at.
16:16:26 < rasengan> Invited everyone in staff to freenode-staff-discussion and nobody came. I came here and Fuchs and Kline were talking about me lol
16:16:34 -!- Rudd0 [~Rudd0@185.189.115.103] has joined #freenode [account Rudd0] [realname None]
16:16:37 < rasengan> please chat there if you guys want to Continue I’m there. Cheers.
16:16:38 < aab_> freenode will be fine they will just get more staff
16:16:41 < aab_> then train them up
16:17:12 -!- thoughtcrime [~thoughtcr@gateway/tor-sasl/thoughtcrime] has joined #freenode [account thoughtcrime] [realname ruthless thoughtcriminal - thoughtful individual]
16:17:26 -!- thafaker539 [~thelounge@ip9234017a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:17:46 < mplsCorwin> rasengan: not really about me getting +b; I was in fact a bit out of line.  It's about if the privacy policy or other things need to change given the motion to strike.
16:18:10 -!- Kal3ssiN [~Kal3ssiN@fedora/Kal3ssiN] has quit [Quit: leaving]
16:18:15 -!- Umbire [~Umbire@unaffiliated/umbire] has joined #freenode [account Umbire] [realname realname]
16:18:17 < tech_exorcist> public service announcement; a spammer just appeared on a small IRC network, they may get to bigger ones
16:18:25 -!- bpalmer [~user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has joined #freenode [account bpalmer] [realname unknown]
16:18:52 < MIF> eh tech_exorcist
16:18:56 < tech_exorcist> ?
16:19:08 < mplsCorwin> As a user, I was just asking.  Can also say that the tone in #freenode seems to chase of the most on-topic conversation from being here.  but also that over decades the ops and policies here are excellent, and I'm a happy user.
16:19:17 -!- stree [~stree@68.36.8.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
16:19:20 -!- Romarain [~Romarain@119.12.203.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #freenode [account Romarain] [realname realname]
16:19:30 <@Fuchs> mplsCorwin: glad to hear that, and we are not changing our policies, and he can't ban you.
16:20:03 <@Fuchs> if we are let to, freenode will continue to run as it was ran successfully the past twenty-something years
16:20:04 -!- phy1729 [~phy1729@zsh/wizard/phy1729] has joined #freenode [account phy1729] [realname Matthew Martin]
16:20:06 < another> hmm.. didn't think I would be getting into British company filings when I got up today. Better open those strategic popcorn reserves...
16:20:06 -!- virginiemaris [~Thunderbi@2a01:e0a:8ea:c440:b53b:348f:736:f71d] has joined #freenode [account virginiemaris] [realname virginiemaris]
16:20:16 -!- sorrel [~sorrel@hacksoc/chair] has joined #freenode [account sorrel] [realname sersorrel_]
16:20:16 < Adran> fwiw i too think this is all a bit absurd and freenode doesn't need fixing.. staff are respectful and generally very good at what they do which is volunteer and spend untold hours doing a lot of labor intensive stuff to keep this place working. idk
16:20:22 < muirrum> question: what actual practical power does rasengan have over the network itself (servers, ircop, etc.)?
16:20:30 < Adran> this seems just nuts and should just leave well enough alone
16:20:35 < mplsCorwin> Fuchs: :)  I apprecaite all y'all.  I'd like to see more "fighting it out" in public spaces. +q the channel when you have to I guess but model the self-governing with transparency thing if you can at all stand to, please.
16:20:38 < mefistofeles> muirrum: that would helpful to know, been asking the same
16:20:39 <@jess> i'm not very happy about operational control of the network forcefully being changed from who it has been for many years
16:20:40 < terpri> another, same :)
16:20:41 < Church-> Well he owns them iirc through the LTD/LLC
16:20:47 < Church-> Err owns the servers*
16:20:52 -!- thafaker539 [~thelounge@146.52.1.122] has joined #freenode [realname The Lounge User]
16:20:53 < Church-> Afaik which may be wrong
16:20:55 -!- xenrox [~xenrox@unaffiliated/xenrox] has joined #freenode [account xenrox] [realname xenrox]
16:20:59 < Adran> bring back the PDPC
16:21:10 -!- xenrox [~xenrox@unaffiliated/xenrox] has left #freenode ["bye"]
16:21:14 < roadkill> another: Joel has some buttered popcorn and hot dogs without the bun if you'd like
16:21:17 < rasengan> This all started because the freenode domain accounts were taken over.
16:21:19 <@Fuchs> mplsCorwin: unfortunately some stuff has been leaked, we didn't plan to do any public fighting, however, as now there are some false informations circling around, I guess we have no choice other than correcting them
16:21:26 < brabo> jess: i second that
16:21:26 < thoughtcrime> I'm not entirely sure about what's happening, but knowing staff like Fuchs for years, I fully support people like him because of his ideals.
16:21:29 <@jess> volunteer freenode staff have been running the place through thick and thin for very many years for absolutely free
16:21:30 < rasengan> and then they were held hostage
16:21:42 < rasengan> Thanks Jess.
16:21:43 <@Fuchs> thoughtcrime: thank you ♥
16:21:48 -!- Atum_ [~IRC@unaffiliated/atum/x-2392232] has quit [Quit: Atum_]
16:21:49 < Joel> Fuchs does your group hold the domain, or no?
16:21:52 <@amdj> muirrum: none.
16:21:54 -!- kurahaupo [~kurahaupo@unaffiliated/kurahaupo] has joined #freenode [account kurahaupo] [realname M K]
16:21:55 < zoite> freenode staff deserves a raise
16:22:02 <@jess> no i want to work for free
16:22:05 < Khaytsus> zoite: Double their pay!
16:22:06 < MIF> I don't care waht rasengan says I am going to listen to the staff
16:22:07 <@jess> this would suck if i was being paid
16:22:08 < mplsCorwin> Fuchs: i get that. i somewhat think it's for the best.  people tire more quickly of things that are in plain sight vs those they have to dig for dirt on.
16:22:10 <@Fuchs> zoite: from 0$ to 0$, sure, that's double the current one!
16:22:16 -!- CordialCatto [cordialcat@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/cordialcatto] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
16:22:17  * vulpine gives jess a 2000% raise
16:22:28 < mefistofeles> let us don't make this a political bipartidism, please... we ough to be better
16:22:33 < zoite> maybe we can give you more vacation days
16:22:35 <@jess> and operational control moving under the direct control of a for-profit enterprise makes me sick to my stomach
16:22:41 < zoite> let's join a union
16:22:56 < MIF> so freenode IS changing?
16:23:03 <@kline> nothing is changing yet
16:23:04 < Church-> TBD
16:23:06 <@Fuchs> MIF: not for now, no
16:23:07 <@kline> and if anything does change
16:23:13 < terpri> zoite, solidarity forever :)
16:23:14 <@kline> it will be communicated clearly and objectively
16:23:19 < MIF> so then what was rasengan talking about?
16:23:19 < mefistofeles> jess: ok, I agree... but then, this company owns the infrastructure, right?
16:23:21 < brabo> jess: likewise for many floss projects on here. we don't want that.
16:23:22 < Khaytsus> MIF: We'll just move to your irc network
16:23:24 <@jess> no
16:23:27 < LondonNoTrust> methat's your continuing mistake -- you can't moderate people out of being political.  You're just making them repress feelings which only leeds to a bigger blow up later.
16:23:30 < LondonNoTrust> er
16:23:33 <@jess> infrastructureis totally donated
16:23:33 < MIF> Khaytsus: YES
16:23:35 < LondonNoTrust> mefistofeles,
16:23:36 < Thedarkb-Desktop> It's less partisanship and more being uncomfortable with the idea of someone who hasn't really engaged with the community for as long as can remember barging in and shouting orders.
16:23:36 <@kline> MIF, thats just an opinion, its not reflective of reality yet
16:23:40 < Thedarkb-Desktop> as I can*
16:23:41 < mplsCorwin> kline: cool beans, just want I want to hear :)
16:23:47 <@jess> by various volunteering sponsors from many walks of lfe
16:23:49 <@jess> life
16:23:49 < MIF> so rasengan does NOT own freenode
16:24:00 <@amdj> mefistofeles: no. our hardware is provided free of cost by sponsors, in return for advertisement in the server's MOTD and at https://freenode.net/acknowledgements
16:24:07 < mefistofeles> amdj: ok
16:24:10 <@jess> some companies, some individuals, none of our infrastructure currently belongs to the people claiming to own the network
16:24:11 -!- schneider [~schneider@irc2.xtort.eu] has joined #freenode [account schneider-] [realname schneider]
16:24:12 <@amdj> the hardware is owned by the sponsors.
16:24:15 <@kline> MIF, rasengan owns freenode ltd, which may or may not have claims to more than that, but its not clear and we dont think so as yet
16:24:24 < Church-> So this is a matter of owning the domain and trademarks, copyright, etc only?
16:24:30 <@Fuchs> and as per that, we obviously can't just hand access over or data to people demanding for it
16:24:33 <@kline> no freenode staff have contracts with the ltd company
16:24:35 <@kline> etc
16:24:43 < aab_> ah
16:24:45 -!- Psy-Q [~psy-q@www.psy-q.ch] has joined #freenode [account Psy-Q] [realname Psy-Q]
16:24:46 < mefistofeles> thanks for the information! that was needed
16:25:03 < Joel> ^+1
16:25:06 <@jess> and actually having the network run by someone willing bribe people with olines makes me sick to my stomach
16:25:16 -!- Trashlord [~trash@wikipedia/Sentient-Planet] has quit [Quit: "True ignorance is not the absence of knowledge, but the refusal to acquire it."]
16:25:18 < MIF> ^
16:25:25 < Joel> ^
16:25:25 < mplsCorwin> wait... olines?
16:25:28 < A_D> bribes by way of "you can ban whoever you want" as well, no less
16:25:29 <@jess> oper status
16:25:37 < MIF> if freenode does change I am going to shut down my channels and leave
16:25:39 < mplsCorwin> I mean, how many olines?
16:25:39 < nitrix> jess, Even worse when they put on their ~ hat.
16:25:44 < A_D> mplsCorwin: olines are the oldtime name for oper status from when they were lines starting with O: in a config files
16:25:49 -!- Atum_ [IRC@gateway/vpn/airvpn/atum/x-01904479] has joined #freenode [account Atum_] [realname Atum_]
16:25:51 < MIF> and I mean that
16:25:52 < Church-> Are we simping for oper status then?
16:25:54 <@kline> there have been no staff changes
16:25:56  * Church- simps for kline
16:25:56 -!- Cocopuff2018 [uid445178@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eorermdkpijpzeua] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
16:26:06 -!- kurahaupo [~kurahaupo@unaffiliated/kurahaupo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
16:26:07 <@Fuchs> join my OnlyOpers
16:26:10 < Church-> lolol
16:26:12 < mplsCorwin> A_D: sorry; my joke fell flat, appologies for the troll there.
16:26:19 < Church-> Fuchs: Gold, Jerry, Gold!
16:26:31 -!- wgreenhouse [5f6eac01c5@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has joined #freenode [account wgreenhouse] [realname wgreenhouse@hmm.st]
16:26:37 < mefistofeles> ok, I think we have consensus on staffers apparently, which is good
16:26:41 -!- virginiemaris [~Thunderbi@2a01:e0a:8ea:c440:b53b:348f:736:f71d] has quit [Quit: virginiemaris]
16:26:44  * another bribes jess with olives
16:26:50 < Khaytsus> catnip
16:26:52 < [smlckz]> wgreenhouse: bad timing!
16:26:58 < joepie91> since we're throwing in 2 cents: I fully trust people like jess and Fuchs to do what is right for the network, and I certainly do *not* trust a for-profit company nor someone who's trying to bribe people and steamrolls over the concerns of those actually responsible for making Freenode what it is today
16:26:59 < mplsCorwin> may I please buy stock in onlyopers with my bitcoinz?
16:27:00  * vulpine bribes jess with smol sandcat pics
16:27:04 <@FireFly> Fuchs: lol
16:27:08 <@jess> pick who you want to listen to wisely; a lot of you know many of us staff and have done for extended periods of time
16:27:30 -!- benrob0329 [~benrob032@174-084-016-235.res.spectrum.com] has joined #freenode [account benrob0329] [realname This is not the name you are looking for o/]
16:27:35 < MIF> thanks jess now you just made it more confusing
16:27:48 < Frogging101> But they have no technical ability to use this power of theirs, so it's irrelevant, no?
16:27:51 < zoite> what can rasengan promise us? why should we pick you over jess
16:27:58 < mefistofeles> MIF: that's ok
16:28:04 < ecks> even though staff can't code i trust them infinitely more than andrew lee lol
16:28:11 < joepie91> the community is not a thing that is "owned", it is stewarded, by those who put their time and energy and heart into it, and certainly not by some legal incorporation
16:28:11 < A_D> MIF: in what way?
16:28:12 < mefistofeles> if people cannot deal with complexity they shouldn't be making any decisions :P
16:28:13 < MIF> I am just going to listen to jess
16:28:16 <@dho> TIL I can't code.
16:28:22 <@Fuchs> dho: olde meme
16:28:22 < A_D> dho: lol
16:28:22 -!- Akuli [~akuli@87-94-108-9.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #freenode [account Akuli] [realname github.com/Akuli]
16:28:23 < MIF> she is the only one that I fully trust on here
16:28:33 <@jess> i appreciate the vote of confidence
16:28:34 -!- mymind [~my_mind@142-196-217-146.res.spectrum.com] has joined #freenode [account my_mind] [realname my_mind]
16:28:34 < voidpi> joepie91: that's my stance but it's a hard thing to do since only a little money will bought you a bunch of morons
16:28:43 < rowbee> i remember the staff can't code spam it was funny
16:28:48 < Frogging101> so they own "the network" but none of the infrastructure and aren't on any ACLs... so this ownership is pretty limited in practice
16:28:56 < brabo> i trust the staff, and this community should not be governed by a for-profit entity.
16:28:57 < Frogging101> right?
16:29:00 <@jess> i was told they didn't own the network when i was hired
16:29:02 -!- facturacion1 [~Thunderbi@187.235.141.19] has joined #freenode [realname facturacion]
16:29:08 < kim_bruning> dho: once you learn you can't code, you can finally learn to code ;-)
16:29:15 < MIF> ^
16:29:16 <@dho> that's some galaxy brain shit
16:29:17 < MIF> ^
16:29:17 < [smlckz]> what is the de facto status? who has the de facto ownership (keys!), at least currently?
16:29:22 <@FireFly> as far as I'm aware, staff volunteering is, well, entirely voluntary
16:29:29 -!- Church- is now known as Morpheus
16:29:35 < Frogging101> what do they own then, exactly?
16:29:49 < MIF> from what I think the fame freenode
16:29:50 < Morpheus> dho: Take the red pill, and I'll show you how deep the LISP hole goes.
16:29:52 < kim_bruning> dho, which sounds all mystic and stupid, until you experience it either by yourself or vicariously
16:29:53 < MIF> *name
16:30:11 -!- kurahaupo [~kurahaupo@unaffiliated/kurahaupo] has joined #freenode [account kurahaupo] [realname M K]
16:30:13 < nitrix> Morpheus, Am I the chosen one?
16:30:18 < kim_bruning> Morpheus, (oh (no (!)))
16:30:34 < kim_bruning> might need an extra '
16:30:38 -!- locotus [~noahfx@unaffiliated/noahfx] has joined #freenode [account noahfx] [realname Josue Ortega]
16:30:38 < MIF> am I correct with that they *MIGHT*(?????????????????) own the NAME freenode?
16:30:38 -!- bastelfreak [~bastelfre@voxpupuli/pmc/bastelfreak] has joined #freenode [account bastelfreak] [realname bastelfreak]
16:30:42 -!- krishan [~krishan@wikimedia/-1997kb] has quit [Quit: Quit: Client Quit]
16:30:45 -!- finn_elija [~finn_elij@gateway/tor-sasl/finnelija/x-67402716] has joined #freenode [account finn_elija] [realname FinnElija]
16:31:00 < A_D> for reference on what happened the last time LTM tried this, and some opinion from me and some proof of some employees and their opinions on network security; https://gist.github.com/A-UNDERSCORE-D/66dcf27eaf14ecc0b07a642c34811269
16:31:01 < terpri> MIF: freenode ltd appears to own the domain freenode.net according to whois data
16:31:14 < Morpheus> (Or take the (blue) pill, and (be an op) who doesn't know how to code.)
16:31:16 < nitrix> What does the 17 question marks accomplish that 1 question mark wouldn't?
16:31:31 -!- aibo [~aibo@unaffiliated/aibo/x-2229875] has joined #freenode [account aiBo`] [realname aibo]
16:31:38 < Thedarkb-Desktop> Who owned the domain prior to the foundation of Freenode Ltd?
16:31:42 < MIF> nitrix: shows that I am super confused
16:31:43 -!- dzho [~dzho@unaffiliated/dzho] has joined #freenode [account dzho] [realname Unknown]
16:31:49 <@jess> Thedarkb-Desktop: i would imagine christel
16:31:49 < mefistofeles> terpri: yeah, they claim the domain accounts have been held hostage... which is not good, but may worth it for a larger good
16:31:53 -!- milehigh- [sid406728@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vwirxtdbxbzmwpjq] has joined #freenode [account milehigh-] [realname MileHigh]
16:32:07 < nitrix> MIF, Is there a reference table for the amount of confused to the amount of question mark ratio?
16:32:11 -!- stree [~stree@68.36.8.116] has joined #freenode [account stree] [realname stree]
16:32:12 < thoughtcrime> who cares about a domain name? someone could just buy the domain freernode.net, I may just pay for it
16:32:13 < Thedarkb-Desktop> What prompted the foundation of Freenode Ltd?
16:32:15 < nitrix> MIF, Or can I just assume it's linear?
16:32:19 < MIF> yes
16:32:32 -!- tos9 [~tos9@python/site-packages/tos9] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
16:32:39 < mefistofeles> thoughtcrime: pay for it and complain in a few years about it not making profit and take over the network... sounds like a plan! :)
16:32:40 < thoughtcrime> Thedarkb-Desktop: it's a long old story
16:32:47 < MIF> 5+ question marks means that I HAVE NOT ******* CLUE WHAT IS GOING ON nitrix
16:32:49 < SexIsBad2TheBone> the opposite of FireFly is waterfall
16:32:55 -!- Cocopuff2018 [uid445178@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uevawflebluqthgw] has joined #freenode [account Cocopuff2018] [realname Cocopuff2018]
16:33:02 < SexIsBad2TheBone> okok i dont do it again
16:33:03 < MIF> 10+ means WHAT THE **** IS ****ing GOING THE ***** ON?
16:33:11 < joepie91> the line between "keeping hostage" and "protecting from a bad actor" is thin and mainly defined by the intentions of those involved
16:33:11 < nitrix> MIF, That's a strange way to communicate but I think I get it?????
16:33:23 < MIF> correct
16:33:25 < [smlckz]> who are the infrastructure providers seem to support?
16:33:35 < moonshin1> MIF calm down and have some dip
16:33:36 -!- Blankspace [~asddf@unaffiliated/blankspace] has joined #freenode [account BlankSpace] [realname buddhi]
16:33:40 <@Fuchs> [smlckz]: well, they have donated the servers to us
16:33:48 <@Fuchs> [smlckz]: what their opinion is we'd have to ask them I guess
16:34:02 < [smlckz]> Fuchs: please ask
16:34:04 -!- tos9 [~tos9@python/site-packages/tos9] has joined #freenode [account tos9] [realname tos9]
16:34:30 < fluix> it's probably a good idea not to bug anyone and just wait for public communication
16:34:38 <@Fuchs> that sounds like a good idea, yes
16:35:21 -!- mgol [~m_gol@84-10-66-88.static.chello.pl] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
16:35:42 < moonshin1> that's the {elephant,gorilla,whatever} in the room. who has a seat at the metaphorical table
16:36:21 <@Fuchs> moonshin1: debatable I'd say, but as of now: freenode is ran by and under control by the volunteers that have ran it for the past two decades   (well, obviously people joined and left during that period)
16:36:48 < milehigh-> i thought some guy owns it now
16:36:57 < [smlckz]> Fuchs: with the support of infra donors lies our abiliry to move infra to a new name and domain and leave the ''ltd'' behind
16:36:57 < milehigh-> and just them
16:36:59 <@Fuchs> that would be his claim, yes
16:37:27 -!- Bad_K4rMa [Bad_K4rMa@unaffiliated/rjphares] has joined #freenode [account rjphares] [realname ...]
16:37:42 < milehigh-> where is he so i can tell him to suck it
16:37:53 <@Fuchs> [smlckz]: it would be trivial to move the whole infra over to new servers or new networks, but whether this can be done legally is not decided, so for now I wouldn't want to speculate on that, and we wouldn't have, but unfortuntaely some people leaked info and we had to answer to some wrong claims
16:38:04  * another has a seat at his own table! With blackjack!
16:38:05 -!- Emcy [~Emcy@unaffiliated/emcy] has joined #freenode [account Emcy] [realname realname]
16:38:16 < milehigh-> mine has hookers
16:38:17 <@Fuchs> I'm not a lawyer, that's what I have my legal insurance for, so I obviously won't make any legal claims
16:38:21 < milehigh-> forget the blackjack
16:38:21 <@amdj> also for reference, I too have a draft resignation letter, but I didn't put it on my webserver yet and haven't sent it to anyone; search engines and crawlers are a bit too good at their job. furthermore, the only people I would send it to are the other staff members, not some holding company I have no association with.
16:38:29 < LondonNoTrust> i got the craps table
16:38:38 < A_D> Fuchs: ` volunteers that have ran it for the past two decades` and have done a really good job
16:38:40 <@Fuchs> what I do know is that I also won't hand over anything to people whose claims I simply cannot verify, it would be rather stupid for me to do that
16:39:01 < brabo> Fuchs: quite so
16:39:01 < moonshin1> what would lilo have wanted
16:39:07 < milehigh-> good point Fuchs
16:39:11 < slimdaddy> that claim + frantic typos said quite a lot
16:39:12 -!- jescis-Desktop1 [~jescis@c-66-177-166-232.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
16:39:23 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #freenode [account copumpkin] [realname Gourdmeister]
16:39:24 < zoite> amdj, you can send it to me, i'm very good at storing private information
16:39:38 < terpri> Fuchs, i fully agree, if anyone should "own" freenode it's the volunteers who've kept it running for 20+ years
16:39:45 < terpri> rip lilo
16:39:54 < milehigh-> WWLD
16:39:54 < niko> indeed Fuchs
16:39:55 < another> amdj: three letters rule?
16:39:56 -!- mode/#freenode [+o niko] by ChanServ
16:40:11 -!- jescis-Desktop1 [~jescis@c-66-177-166-232.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #freenode [account jescis] [realname Jeremiah Scott Norris]
16:40:13 <@amdj> another: ?
16:41:05 -!- \mSg [~mSg@irchelp/msg] has joined #freenode [account \mSg] [realname mSg]
16:41:11 < mplsCorwin> in fact, and I'm not any sort of barrister or anything, I'd think the less done to associate ones self with the claimant the better; the assertion here is that branding is secondary.  freenode irc network is mostly known to it's users in terms of what it actually is and provides, and not as a factor of any forces external to what it actually provides (e.g. chat itself is what provides freenode identity).  Even the repos and servers
16:41:11 < mplsCorwin> access is less foundational.
16:41:19 < nitrix> Freenode is more than the staff though. The community will pick up elsewhere with or without them. There are always people in need of help and people willing to help.
16:41:23 -!- nemo_ [~nemo@unaffiliated/nemo/x-0958849] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
16:41:42 < another> When entering a new "job" write three letters: First letter: Blame your predecessor. Second: Promise structural changes. Third: Resignation.
16:42:05 < [smlckz]> another: ahh
16:42:13 <@amdj> oh, hadn't heard that before.
16:42:15 < mplsCorwin> The main thing that freenode is is the users, whether they have an o-line or not.
16:42:54 < another> hmm.. i might have mixed something up there. it's from a joke i read once
16:43:17 -!- another is now known as onother
16:43:27  * onother has o-line now
16:43:30 < [smlckz]> do the volunteers have any signed paperwork with this ''freenode ltd''?
16:43:35 <@jess> no
16:43:37 <@kline> no
16:43:38 <@niko> no
16:43:41 <@Fuchs> onother: if you were onotter you'd be cuter
16:43:42 <@FireFly> not to my knowledge
16:43:46 <@FireFly> (so, no)
16:43:51 <@jess> these bastards don't even know my real name!
16:43:52 <@jess> :)
16:43:52 < onother> lol
16:43:55 <@mniip> no
16:44:00 < Humbedooh> is it hunter2?
16:44:05 <@jess> SHIT
16:44:07 -!- onother is now known as another
16:44:09 < MIF> lol
16:44:09 < Thedarkb-Desktop> So, the only real power they have over the network is ownership of the domain.
16:44:13 -!- MJCD [uid193337@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fzyptrovhvdbyrlz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
16:44:14 < milehigh-> wow blasting her password like that
16:44:16 <@Fuchs> Jessica Sophie Porter, go to your room!
16:44:18 < SexIsBad2TheBone> the opposite of FireFly is waterfall ehhhahaha
16:44:19 < milehigh-> for shame
16:44:20 <@jess> OI
16:44:21 < qyliss> I only see *******
16:44:21 < evilrails> You don't sign an NDA anymore?
16:44:22 < fluix> that depends on legal stuff that isn't figured out yet
16:44:25 <@jess> HOW DO YOU KNOW
16:44:32 -!- Saphir [~fuegoleon@unaffiliated/fugeoleon] has joined #freenode [account SaphirJD] [realname Amiga/C64/Chiptune music is awesome :)]
16:44:39 < Humbedooh> The Shadow knows....
16:44:39 < MIF> evilrails: they never signed a NDA
16:44:49 < milehigh-> did anyone ?
16:44:51 < evilrails> Huh
16:44:56 < another> jess: I assume that name to be potentialy fake
16:44:58 <@FireFly> SexIsBad2TheBone: I'm not even going to work out the opposite of your nick, but I'd appreciate fewer silly highlights :p
16:45:01 <@jess> freenode actually never has had an NDA
16:45:02 < milehigh-> i thought there was one person who wasnt admitting if they did or now
16:45:04 < milehigh-> not *
16:45:07 <@jess> there's a joke NDA floating around though, it's very funny
16:45:11 < SexIsBad2TheBone> sorry
16:45:14 < evilrails> Someone lied to me a very long time ago
16:45:23 -!- noctux [~noctux@unaffiliated/noctux] has joined #freenode [account noctux] [realname noctux]
16:45:25 < zoite> evilrails, was it me
16:45:26 < SexIsBad2TheBone> hihihi
16:45:26 < LondonNoTrust> I'ma go to the FireFly festival and see Judah Lion
16:45:28 <@jess> you should have read the NDA a lot closer. it says we can't have mobile phones
16:45:28 < dzho> ok, so at the very least, this isn't "someone made some lookalike github accounts to troll freenode"
16:45:29 -!- Yendred [~Yendred@unaffiliated/yendred] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
16:45:31 < LondonNoTrust> i think it's in september
16:45:33 -!- tian [~tian2992@fsf/member/tian2992] has joined #freenode [account tian2992] [realname tian]
16:45:41 < nitrix> I'd be impressed if there is any judge that even accept that case beyond hearing. Doesn't stop people from trying though.
16:45:45 <@FireFly> the silly nda thing is full of things that can't possibly be the case, heh
16:45:58 < nitrix> Would be nice if Freenode created a precedent scare, like CloudFlare did to the patent trolls.
16:45:58 < hexa-> sandcat seen hunting flappy birds
16:46:14 < LondonNoTrust> https://fireflyfestival.com/
16:46:15 -!- siraben [sirabenmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-heuatjnwiiuzaciw] has joined #freenode [account siraben] [realname org.matrix:siraben]
16:46:23 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #freenode [account DeanGuss] [realname Dean Guss]
16:46:28 < hexa-> oh yeah, there was a movie about that on netflix, awesome
16:46:40 < b_jonas> FireFly: no, it's worse than that, actually it's offical policy for Facebook employees, someone just replaced the obvious references to Facebook with Freenode
16:46:54 < [smlckz]> now look for the paperworks of infra donors on their donation and talk with them
16:47:06 -!- lord| [~solenodic@unaffiliated/solenodic] has joined #freenode [account solenodic] [realname solenodic]
16:47:15 < fluix> let them do what they need to do
16:47:21 <@jess> i wonder if sponsors will still want to be supporting the network after a hostile takeover by a for profit company
16:47:22 <@mniip> infra donors do not have paperwork with us
16:47:49 <@Fuchs> well, nobody does
16:47:56 <@Fuchs> volunteers don't, sponsors don't, ...
16:48:06 < LondonNoTrust> They are...The Guards of the Infra
16:48:10 < locotus> omg
16:48:11 < moonshin1> it's a bad look for a for profit company
16:48:15 < rasengan> So leave. You already resigned. Stop hurting freenode.
16:48:17 <@amdj> [smlckz]: it's literally "hey, we like you're network, and we'd like to provide a server for you to use" "ok"
16:48:20 <@niko> wait are you telling me we are working for free for decades ?
16:48:21 < rasengan> Everyone else is trying to go about their day.
16:48:22 < milehigh-> maybe they can sponsor free.node instead
16:48:22 < locotus> ya tengo tiling
16:48:25 <@jess> haven't you noticed no one wants you here andrew
16:48:28 <@Fuchs> niko: sorry to break it to you like that
16:48:28 < milehigh-> why not just change the name
16:48:35 < locotus> oops wrong window
16:48:47 < rasengan> Jess you resigned. You don’t want yourself to be here I guess either? :)
16:48:48 <@amdj> [smlckz]: occasionally the infra email address will get an invoice for $0, but that's only because of how the accounting systems work at some of them.
16:48:53 < Remco> niko: It's called *free*node ;)
16:48:57  * Fuchs checks
16:48:58 < zoite> rasengan, are you our new boss?
16:49:08 <@Fuchs> jess is opered and opped, and has a staff cloak
16:49:11 < rasengan> Zoite no
16:49:11 <@Fuchs> she doesn't appear resigned to me
16:49:17 -!- imaginary [~clinch@unaffiliated/clincher] has joined #freenode [account imaginary] [realname lights]
16:49:24 < zoite> who will we be reporting to?
16:49:26 <@amdj> rasengan: as you've already been told several times, no-one has resigned, and the letters you have were not sent to you by us. wake up.
16:49:28 -!- GermainZ [~GermainZ@unaffiliated/germainz] has joined #freenode [account GermainZ] [realname GermainZ]
16:49:29 < milehigh-> i wouldn't blame anyone for resigning
16:49:29 <@jess> i drafted a resignation in protest of your stated intentions to seize control of the network from the people that have lovingly run the network
16:49:30 <@FireFly> I don't think anyone's resigned yet
16:49:37 < phy1729> Can rasengan just be k-lined so we can go about our day?
16:49:38 < ecks> i resign
16:49:39 <@Fuchs> correct, nobody did
16:49:48 <@Fuchs> okay, now ecks did
16:49:50 < rasengan> I didn’t cease control. Control was ceased from freenode limited.
16:49:50 <@niko> for staff shopping ?
16:49:51 <@Fuchs> we'll be missing him
16:50:00 < [smlckz]> these donors files their taxes and might report to whom they donated. if they didn't write ''freenode ltd'' there, fine
16:50:03 <@jess> christel resigned amicably
16:50:07 -!- Morpheus is now known as Church-
16:50:08 < [smlckz]> *file
16:50:09 <@FireFly> oh, well yes
16:50:11 <@Fuchs> rasengan: as you wrote yourself, freenode limited never had operational control over freenode
16:50:13 <@FireFly> but that was a while back
16:50:17 <@Fuchs> I mean, I've been doing this for 10 years, I'd know
16:50:19  * file found
16:50:20 <@jess> 2021-03-15 21:21:47 <rasengan> I have not, am not, and will not interfere with the operations of freenode outside of when asked for help [...]10
16:50:25 <@amdj> [smlckz]: it's not that kind of donation. the sponsors retain ownership of their hardware, and only provide us with use of it.
16:50:26 -!- Descartes [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/berenerchamion] has joined #freenode [account BerenErchamion] [realname New Now Know How]
16:50:37 <@jess> you've surely changed your tune young man
16:50:38 -!- zutat [4e30bf57@unaffiliated/zutat] has joined #freenode [account zutat] [realname https://webchat.freenode.net]
16:50:40 < rasengan> Wrong Fuchs. Freenode limited always did. And I helped whenever asked.
16:50:48 -!- Psy-Q [~psy-q@www.psy-q.ch] has left #freenode ["Back into the void."]
16:50:57 < ecks> all my homies hate freenode ltd
16:51:01 <@Fuchs> rasengan: there seems to be your word against, well, the people who ran this network for the past years
16:51:11 -!- p1c [~Thunderbi@93-38-238-139.ip73.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: p1c]
16:51:12 < rasengan> Oh ok.
16:51:20 < rasengan> Let’s see what tomaw has to say.
16:51:21 < rasengan> :)
16:51:30 <@Fuchs> rasengan: and oddly enough, I don't remember freenode limited ever giving me any operational orders, and I've been doing freenode work for a decade, and infra work for years
16:51:36 -!- pseudo [ratbox@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-rtqzozknrxhwejqf] has joined #freenode [account pseudo] [realname Na]
16:51:44 < nitrix> How would a sponsor even cease control of a distributed IRC network? The other nodes would just stop connecting to it, the largest split wins, like bitcoin.
16:51:45 < zoite> shouldn't it be freenode unlimited
16:52:00 <@jess> well what's really cool is tomaw found himself in the position he currently is with the agreement of the entire staff base
16:52:02 <@kline> seize*
16:52:08 < nitrix> seize, thank you.
16:52:08 < Greatest> They say rasengan is the true owner of Freenode
16:52:13 < phy1729> nitrix: freenode isn't run like a historical IRC network
16:52:28 < nitrix> phy1729, Can you elaborate?
16:52:36 -!- file [sid178970@asterisk/developer-and-muffin-lover/file] has left #freenode []
16:52:44 <@Fuchs> nitrix: freenode is centrally ran by freenode staff
16:52:50 <@Fuchs> nitrix: we don't have per-server admins
16:52:53 < zoite> rasengan, will you be providing severance packages
16:52:55 <@Fuchs> and our policies and rules are global
16:53:01  * vulpine seizes rasengan, places in the naughty box
16:53:16 -!- eyeoh [~eyeoh@unaffiliated/eyeoh] has joined #freenode [account eyeoh] [realname eyeoh]
16:53:20 < moonshin1> anyway as someone (i forget) asked previously:  what problems are the changes rasengan is proposing supposed to solve
16:53:31 < moonshin1> that is not clear to anybody
16:53:35 < nitrix> Fuchs, Ah. Yeah that's a pretty big difference. Are the decisions taken democratically by vote or it's always been trust/common sense?
16:53:39 < ecks> probably not enough blockchain
16:53:44 < milehigh-> if rasengan can legalize it i'll vote for you
16:53:57 < ljharb> rasengan: "always", meaning, since 2017?
16:54:03 <@Fuchs> moonshin1: well, given from the blog post and page we had to remove by what I assume was force:  the democratically elected structure and teams of freenode, plus us collaborating on a new, FOSS ircd
16:54:13 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@p200300d2670b9500982c0fd39c3471d7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
16:54:26 < Church-> LondonNoTrust: There's an eternal september joke there with that festival there.
16:54:31 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has left #freenode ["Bye!"]
16:54:34 <@Fuchs> moonshin1: but that's only a guess, I'd say rasengan would know more, maybe? I am not aware of problems to solve, mind, it looked like we managed rather well the past years
16:54:47 < MIF> ^
16:54:53 -!- grubles [~grubles@gateway/tor-sasl/grubles] has joined #freenode [account grubles] [realname grubles]
16:54:53 < zoite> there have been a lot of netsplits lately
16:54:59 < slimdaddy> I’ve got some serious Stockholm syndrome and need to be liberated by a corporation
16:55:06 < b_jonas> except for that one day when there was like a half hour long lag between some servers, yes.
16:55:12 -!- gtlsgamr [~gtlsgamr@103.200.84.203] has joined #freenode [account gtlsgamr] [realname Unknown]
16:55:15 <@niko> zoite: the more servers there is rotations, the more netsplit could occurs
16:55:20 < b_jonas> I still don't understand how that could happen.
16:55:29 < zoite> we should remove servers then, ideally run it just on 1
16:55:42 < gtlsgamr> Heyo, I am looking for channels where people discuss TV and movies (preferably international), any suggestions?
16:55:46 < nitrix> zoite, Call it the single point of success.
16:55:49 <@amdj> just to clarify on that IRCd point, Fuchs, freenode development effort was being spent on Charybdis upstream while I was still a Charybdis maintainer, since at least early 2020. with that in mind, we did plan to move to Charybdis upstream, but that plan fell apart, so we forked it (again) around September to create Solanum.
16:55:49 <@amdj> so the work on a replacement IRCd isn't new.
16:55:51 <@dho> gtlsgamr: /msg alis help list
16:56:01 < gtlsgamr> alright
16:56:04 -!- gtlsgamr [~gtlsgamr@103.200.84.203] has left #freenode []
16:56:23 < Church-> Fuchs: So out of curiosity, what's the process for donating infra anyway vis a vis this net/new net?
16:56:27 < LondonNoTrust> Church-, are you going to tell the joke or did I miss it?
16:56:31 < b_jonas> amdj: what? didn't you already replace the IRCd once?
16:56:36 < fluix> there's no new net yet
16:56:44 < Church-> LondonNoTrust: You mentioning firefly festival in september.
16:56:47 < nitrix> Church-, Whatever it was, you can bet it's on hold and going to change now :P
16:56:50 <@amdj> b_jonas: freenode has been running ircd-seven (an older Charybdis fork) for many years.
16:56:59 <@Fuchs> Church-: in case of freenode it was usually potential sponsors contacting us, we told them what we'd need, they provided, we pulled the server into our config management and had a test run, and then included it
16:57:06 < Church-> nitrix: Heh aye. fluix: I'm aware.
16:57:08 <@mquin> b_jonas: hybrid, dancer, hyperion, ircd-seven, solanum soon(TM)
16:57:10 < Church-> Fuchs: Got it.
16:57:17 < LondonNoTrust> Church-, yes, I'm going to go see Judah the Lion a band there ....is that the joke?
16:57:23 < evilrails> Hyperion was baller
16:57:26 < evilrails> I miss it
16:57:29 -!- Nimzowitsch [~nimzo@unaffiliated/nimzowitsch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:57:39 -!- TrUsT_n1 [~TrUsT_n1@136.37.125.234] has joined #freenode [account TrUsT_n1] [realname TrUsT_n1]
16:57:42 -!- Romarain [~Romarain@119.12.203.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:57:54 < Church-> LondonNoTrust: No just the association with september. :p It would've been a stupid joke even if I teased it out.
16:58:19 < applegal> why are they interfering with IRC network now? was it because of the fierce competition from discord? now they are trying to remodel IRC to match discord?
16:58:25 < b_jonas> mquin: ok, I'm young then. I only remember one time when the ircd got replaced, and one when the services got replaced.
16:58:39 < ptrcmd> how does freenode own the servers donated to it? is it some kind of shared ownership by the freenode staff?
16:58:39 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #freenode [account Didi`] [realname unknown]
16:58:46 <@jess> sponsors own the servers
16:58:50 <@Fuchs> ptrcmd: the infra team is granted access by means of ssh
16:59:10 <@Fuchs> ptrcmd: the sponsors own them, but lose access as well (well, direct access, I assume they can walk to their basement and just shut it down)
16:59:10 < MIF> I imagine keys?
16:59:14 < LondonNoTrust> Church-, I didn't give you access to my sub conscious so you won't tease anything about september out of me.  I see what you did there.
16:59:20 < Church-> heh
16:59:22 <@jess> companies, individuals, etc donate servers to us to run IRC nodes on. the access to those servers is held by the long-term established internal infrastructure team
16:59:22 <@Fuchs> MIF: no, we all share the same password ;)   Yes, keys.
16:59:24 <@amdj> ptrcmd: the sponsors (continue to) own them. we just use them. with sponsors whose accounting departments insist on bean counting, we are put on a $0/month or $0/year plan.
16:59:30 -!- uxfi [~uxfi@unaffiliated/uxfi] has joined #freenode [account uxfi] [realname Jose Ramos De Santana Estéban]
16:59:35 < Church-> MIF: Nah gotta knock three times and whisper the secret word to Moe.
16:59:37 < zoite> rasengan, will you be providing freenode staff with new cars?
16:59:38 < Church-> Then you get in.
16:59:42 -!- TrUsT_n1 [~TrUsT_n1@136.37.125.234] has quit [Client Quit]
16:59:44 < barneygale> Why does *one* sponsor walking away present such a problem, then?
16:59:54 < FLHerne> rasengan: I'm a long-time Freenode FOSS user (see cloak) with no previous involvement in network/op politics. I see the usual netop team united in one position, and you repeatedly putting words in others' mouths that you've been told are false
16:59:55 <@jess> imagine having a bunch of money and still getting absolutely owned like this
16:59:58 < fluix> because they're not *walking away*
17:00:03 <@amdj> barneygale: none of our sponsors are ceasing their arrangement with us.
17:00:07 <@Fuchs> barneygale: it wouldn't if they walked away, they are claiming ownership of the network, I think
17:00:07 < toasty_oats> evilrails: what/who was hyperion?
17:00:19 < FLHerne> rasengan: I don't know who the hell you are, but I'll go with the ops, thanks
17:00:29 < fluix> whois will tell you
17:00:42 < fluix> (partially)
17:00:42 -!- LiftLeft [googolplex@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/googolplexking] has joined #freenode [account googolplexking] [realname googolplexking]
17:00:48 < FLHerne> fluix: More rhetorically than that ;-)
17:00:51 < barneygale> Right, but you have several sponsors providing servers. Unless our glorious new leader controls _all_ the servers?
17:01:00 < SexIsBad2TheBone> FLHerne: where i know u from?
17:01:17 < LondonNoTrust> Church-, I'm feeling generous, I'll give you a taste of september...enjoy:
17:01:19 < LondonNoTrust> https://youtu.be/zEuOkapb-_o
17:01:22 -!- mzajc [~mzajc@unaffiliated/mzajc] has joined #freenode [account mzajc] [realname Marko Zajc]
17:01:47 < FLHerne> SexIsBad2TheBone: No idea
17:01:48 < Church-> LondonNoTrust: The fact this wasn't Earth Wind and Fire
17:01:50 < Church-> For shame
17:01:55 < toasty_oats> @fluix were you responding to me?
17:02:02 < nitrix> jess, If it comes down to money, I'm pretty sure the EFF will back Freenode's ass :P
17:02:03 <@jess> why are your oats toasty
17:02:03 < fluix> no
17:02:04 < LondonNoTrust> I picked neil diamond on purpose.  i knew you wanted earth wind and fire
17:02:09 < LondonNoTrust> i didn't forget
17:02:10 <@jess> nitrix: i'd love to talk to eff!
17:02:11 < rasengan> FLHerne: That's your choice.  I appreciate you voicing your opinion and support your cause either way.  If you do find the time in the future to let me know what exactly you're saying I'm "lying" about if I'm understanding your message correctly, that would be appreciated.  That said it's your choice. ;)
17:02:19 -!- akempgen [~akempgen@195.167.221.138] has joined #freenode [account nightstalker] [realname Alexander Kempgen]
17:02:26 -!- acheam [~acheam@kisslinux/acheam] has joined #freenode [account EmptyMessage] [realname acheam]
17:02:26 < toasty_oats> @jess best kind of oats
17:02:30 -!- clarjon1 [~clarjon1@unaffiliated/clarjon1] has joined #freenode [account clarjon1] [realname clarjon1]
17:02:46 -!- frmus [~frmus@unaffiliated/frmus] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:02:50 < FLHerne> rasengan: The "you've resigned" schtick
17:02:58 < SexIsBad2TheBone> FLHerne: are u op in #linux and banned me once?
17:02:58 -!- lassulus [~lassulus@NixOS/user/lassulus] has joined #freenode [account lassulus] [realname lassulus]
17:03:03 -!- j`ey [~joey@unaffiliated/jey/x-00002] has joined #freenode [account j`ey] [realname Joey Gouly]
17:03:05 <@jess> well also the abject fucking bullshit about us forcing christel out
17:03:07 < barneygale> rasengan: finishing every message with ":)" comes across as condescending, but of course you know that.
17:03:17 -!- Dimitris [~dimitris@unaffiliated/dimitris] has left #freenode ["Leaving"]
17:03:18 <@jess> it is fucking low to do that to a former employee Andrew
17:03:21 <@jess> fucking disgraceful
17:03:27 < FLHerne> SexIsBad2TheBone: I don't remember that, but you're bloody annoying so I might well have banned you from somewhere :p
17:03:36 < SexIsBad2TheBone> heh
17:03:41 < rasengan> barneygale: Sorry for typing how I do. ;/
17:03:55 <@amdj> barneygale: whether those hardware sponsors will continue to provide their services should anything happen is up to the sponsors.
17:03:56 -!- MalkbabY [MalkbabY@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/malkbaby] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:04:07 -!- toasty_oats [~toasty_oa@2605:8d80:6e0:f4c3:e3ae:aedb:17ec:9384] has left #freenode ["Leaving"]
17:04:09 < barneygale> rasengan: no worries, if you're new to IRC it takes a while to get the hang of the tone of conversation.
17:04:12 -!- Leonarbro [~Leonet@S01067824af93741c.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #freenode [account Leonarbro] [realname Leonarbro DaVinci]
17:04:12 < thoughtcrime> wait, christel is not around here anymore?
17:04:24 < zoite> s/that./that. :)/
17:04:24 <@Fuchs> thoughtcrime: I'm afraid she resigned a little while ago :/
17:04:26 -!- toasty_oats [~toasty_oa@2605:8d80:6e0:f4c3:e3ae:aedb:17ec:9384] has joined #freenode [realname toasty_oats]
17:04:31 < rasengan> FLHerne: Ah, yes, those resignations absolutely were circulated and while you may think its proper to resign and rescind such resignation, the damage caused by the slander in the statements is real and the effects last far after the resignations were rescinded.
17:04:34 -!- MalkbabY [MalkbabY@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/malkbaby] has joined #freenode [account MalkbabY] [realname MalkbabY]
17:04:36 <@jess> https://github.com/freenode/web-7.0/pull/493
17:04:37 < nitrix> barneygale, rasengan's tone of conversation is "passive-aggresive with smiley faces ;)".
17:04:42 < FLHerne> rasengan: There was a public comment on HN within minutes of the original post
17:04:54 < barneygale> nitrix: I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt as he seems like an IRC noobie
17:04:54 < FLHerne> I've seen at least two of the people named tell you the same thing repeatedly
17:04:58 < barneygale> We were all new once!
17:05:01 -!- mode/#freenode [+o eir] by ChanServ
17:05:02 -!- mode/#freenode [-qo *!*@49.36.45.11 eir] by eir
17:05:22 < rasengan> FLHerne: Again, while I love a world where you can take a mulligan whenever you want, society doesn't work like that.
17:05:22 < moonshin1> well it's not slander if it's true.
17:05:25 -!- hrnz [~hrnz@unaffiliated/hrnz] has joined #freenode [account hrnz] [realname hrnz]
17:05:28 < phy1729> rasengan: why not setup your own network and let the users vote by joining or not
17:05:30 < rasengan> moonshin1: It's not true.
17:05:31 <@amdj> rasengan: again, you're wrong. your tirade in here the other day lead people to search for your name plus "freenode", and duckduckgo just happens to have crawled kline's resignation letter as the number 2 result.
17:05:35 < thoughtcrime> rasengan: you sound edgy, please take some time to relax, buddy
17:05:38 <@jess> phy1729: he wants to take over another network
17:05:43 <@jess> snoonet didn't cut it, i guess
17:05:43 < brabo> phy1729: then he can't strongarm anyone into anything
17:05:49 < LondonNoTrust> Church-, one more, for shame's sake:
17:05:51 < LondonNoTrust> https://youtu.be/Fp_P_e1cPOE
17:05:53 < phy1729> jess: that doesn't sound very democratic of him
17:05:58 < rasengan> thoughtcrime: This has been going on over a month.
17:06:00 <@jess> NOT VERY CASH MONEY IF YOU ASK ME
17:06:03 < joepie91> I wonder how many other people here have witnessed the implosion of LowEndBox/LowEndTalk and recognize just how damn similar this case is, down to the asshole supposed-owner being passive-aggressive-friendly
17:06:12 < brabo> "we are bringing power back to the people" - meaning himself
17:06:18 < slimdaddy> ^^
17:06:21 < MIF> what leaked thing are you talking about?
17:06:22 <@Fuchs> well, we were bringing power back to the people
17:06:25 <@jess> https://sand.cat/fiW5QDYXauoKwybL/snoo-takeover.txt
17:06:26 -!- Romarain [~Romarain@119.12.203.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #freenode [account Romarain] [realname realname]
17:06:27 <@Fuchs> we had elected heads of teams
17:06:29 < brabo> Fuchs: yes, staff is
17:06:30 < rasengan> Snoonet is a perfect example of where I have not in any way attempted to affect any kind of change.  I lost my own channels on snoonet due to policy, and didn't protest or even say a word.  I adhered to policy.
17:06:32 -!- ninjah [uid468311@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xxlivifbhrpgtewm] has joined #freenode [account ninjah] [realname Damien Hull]
17:06:32 <@Fuchs> what happened to these you can see in my draft
17:06:36 <@jess> see the log andrew
17:06:39 -!- benharri [ben@tilde.team/sudoers/ben] has joined #freenode [account benharri] [realname Ben Harris]
17:06:42 < Church-> LondonNoTrust: I aware you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul. :p
17:06:45 < brabo> but that is the slogan on the company website :p
17:06:54 <@Fuchs> and that one is in the web archive, so I'm afraid these ones are rather objective
17:06:58 < phy1729> rasengan: well then if we like you better than the current staff, we'll join there
17:07:02 < joepie91> "didn't protest when I was removed for violating policy" is a pretty damn low bar for good behaviour
17:07:09 < brabo> spoiler alert: we won;t
17:07:11 < nitrix> joepie91, They're more of it nowadays with "cancel culture", but people don't normally get canceled by their own userbase. You'd have to fuck up pretty badly for that.
17:07:12 < brabo> *won;t
17:07:21 < Church-> jess: You right now: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/012/308/9cd.jpg
17:07:30 < zoite> snoonet is a pretty terrible network tbh
17:07:32 -!- cel [cel@celehner.com] has joined #freenode [account celehner] [realname Charles Lehner]
17:07:47 < zoite> remember when they were spying on every user
17:07:47 < MIF> Fuchs: what draft
17:07:48 < terpri> brabo, yes that slogan's pretty funny for an org called "imperial family companies"
17:08:07 < FLHerne> I remember snoonet having some great channels, but most of them seem dead now
17:08:16 -!- bok [~bok@c-71-232-17-76.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #freenode [account evantj] [realname bok]
17:08:18 <@jess> [01:09:43] <prawnsalad> let me put it clearly, Snoonet was sold to LTM. all Snoonet data was sold to LTM a while ago. way before me. there was no autonomous agreement - i have checked, multiple times. i an now explaining all this to you.
17:08:20 <@jess> man
17:08:28 < Church-> So one company is buying up all the irc networks (or trying)?
17:08:32 <@jess> that sounds pretty wank to me
17:08:33 < applegal> oh so that was rasengan's only intention? to have the highest authority on freenode?
17:08:37 <@jess> yes
17:08:37 < Church-> That's not worrying at allll
17:08:41 < joepie91> applegal: appears so.
17:08:49  * Church- chuckles "I'm in danger"
17:08:55 < milehigh-> who the hell is rasengan
17:09:05 < Church-> I dunno some anime thing or something idk
17:09:09 <@Fuchs> MIF: the one that got leaked via hacker news and techrights,  https://fuchsnet.ch/privat/fn-resign-letter.txt  basically
17:09:11 -!- rubenwardy [~rw@minetest/dev/rubenwardy] has joined #freenode [account rubenwardy] [realname rw@rubenwardy.com]
17:09:17 < LondonNoTrust> In reality, no humans barely even use IRC.  like there's 8 billion people in the world, and like 800 real people on irc, and 80,000 ai's and bots.
17:09:20 -!- thedragon [thedragon@gateway/vpn/mullvad/thedragon] has joined #freenode [account thedragon] [realname The Dragon]
17:09:26 < LondonNoTrust> it's not even a particularly useful service any more
17:09:37 < Darren> That.. is an odd bar for any measure of popularity.
17:09:42 < fluix> what? IRC is definitely useful
17:10:00 < Umbire> Real [citation needed] hours.
17:10:00 < zoite> milehigh-, i think he is the new freenode ceo
17:10:01 < fluix> you're on here after all
17:10:08 < FLHerne> LondonNoTrust: "800", really?
17:10:09 < Church-> I mean to a very small subset of folks, but yeah irc is still useful.
17:10:14 < LondonNoTrust> fluix, well to be honest, im broke
17:10:18 <@jess> [01:07:18] <prawnsalad> A_Dragon: again, Snoonet is not only snoonet anymore. it hasnt for some time. unfortunately people have communicated this to snoonet staff in past properly. im trying to correct that.
17:10:20 < LondonNoTrust> and IRC is the cheapest entertainment i can afford
17:10:21 < LondonNoTrust> it's free.
17:10:22 <@jess> oh man this log has some fucking gold
17:10:25 < A_D> `<rasengan> Snoonet is a perfect example of where I have not in any way attempted to affect any kind of change.  I lost my own channels on snoonet due to policy, and didn't protest or even say a word.  I adhered to policy.` Except for swiping servers under staff, forcing access for non-staff people, forcing a network link to a network that has gone nowhere, forcing the staff to hand over the services DB
17:10:39 <@jess> imagine showing your ass on line
17:10:41 <@jess> like this
17:10:43 < nitrix> If you calculate popularity that way, maybe. But the reach of every single individual here within various organizations and open-source projects is probably incalculable.
17:10:51 < Church-> nitrix: Point yeah
17:10:53 < rasengan> A_D: Nope, sorry.
17:10:53 < Church-> Heh
17:10:58 < Church-> I got my first tech gig here
17:11:04 < Darren> I think there's a website for that, jess. Most people charge, though. Doing it for free is a bit odd of them, I admit.
17:11:05 < uxfi> Anyone here knwo channels on where to find work out ?
17:11:06 < gig> well done!
17:11:07 < badastronaut> rasengan: you do realize you stand alone here right? no one is on your side, no one believes your words over people who pour their hearts and souls into freenode for decades. if you do this you'll be left with network you don't know how to operate with no help and few servers, left holding the pieces of the thing you destroyed
17:11:08 < danielcg[m]> showing your ass online is fun
17:11:12 < Church-> And have gotten others on here hired to my current place
17:11:15 < A_D> rasengan: Uhh huh. https://web.archive.org/web/20191021113301/https://gist.github.com/prawnsalad/7b3f5929dadc81c39228e373fa0ca569
17:11:15 < joepie91> [01:00:29] <prawnsalad> A_Dragon: then im sorry to bring the bad news, but snoonet *is* an ltm owned project. i had nothing to do with that. but thats how it is
17:11:20 <@niko> "oups"
17:11:20 < badastronaut> there is no outcome where you become a hero and a saviour here. go move irc.com from phase 2, where it's been sitting for years because you ran it into the ground, to show you can do something useful for the community
17:11:25 < eeeeeta> gotta love the AUDACITY of someone just showing up deciding they have control because they made a limited company
17:11:25 < milehigh-> oh YOU'RE the asshole? thanks , i'll take note.
17:11:29 < joepie91> sure is classy to hide behind a fall guy
17:11:38 < Umbire> uxfi: /msg alis help list
17:11:42 < gig> hmm i picked a good time to check out this buffer
17:11:56 < rowbee> rasengan is what a shonen protagonist would sound like over text
17:12:03 < Church-> rowbee: Pffft
17:12:10 < Church-> My joke but better
17:12:28 < Church-> Hey we should buyout irc.com and holdings. Probably what a couple bucks? I'll move the collection plate around a bit.
17:12:29 < A_D> and don't say "that was pr​awnsalad not me" your employee, your "company", you're responsible.
17:12:47 < milehigh-> there's obviously more to this than he will ever tell us, the intentions are obviously nefarious so from the bottom of my heart, you can suck our collective asses.
17:12:47 < A_D> we never did get that promised call with some lawyers over that
17:12:49 -!- rpifan [~rpifan@p200300d2670b950094429430374addbc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #freenode [account rpifan] [realname realname]
17:12:54 -!- snalty [~Shhh@host31-53-210-159.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in]
17:12:55 < A_D> or anything else that was promised
17:12:57 < A_D> just lies
17:12:58 < rowbee> Church-: thankfully we aren't playing ace attorney and we don't need to point out discrepancies, because there are none
17:13:03 < joepie91> Church-: might get it in a package deal with Yahoo tbh
17:13:03 < Church-> hah
17:13:09 -!- lukeye [~textual@2620:10d:c090:400::5:82fc] has joined #freenode [account lukeye] [realname Textual User]
17:13:13 < rowbee> and this dumb "but you did resign!!!!!" argument is just funny
17:13:15 < Humbedooh> so what you're all saying is... https://i.imgur.com/tPyuJU5.png
17:13:16 < Church-> joepie91: Finally I can get my email back!
17:13:19 -!- jescis-Desktop1 [~jescis@c-66-177-166-232.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
17:13:22 -!- wasted_youth2 [~16189@2600:6c42:6c7f:4409:9590:c432:bed9:28ee] has joined #freenode [realname realname]
17:13:23 < applegal> rasengan: what are you planning to do with the highest authority? you know you failed to gain the respect from other volunteers and you can't run the operation on your own.
17:13:38 < zoite> A_D, he also hired rdv, the previous owner of snoonet, which was found to be logging and spying on users private messages to eachother over the network
17:13:58 < milehigh-> anyway i'm going to sit here with my popcorn and watch this massive dumpster fire you've started, congratulations.
17:13:58 < rowbee> Church-: i can just imagine someone tapping their foot nervously waiting for people to deop themselves
17:14:03 < Church-> Heh
17:14:13 < milehigh-> rasengan: are you at least going to legalize weed for us, mr president
17:14:19 -!- jescis-Desktop1 [~jescis@c-66-177-166-232.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #freenode [account jescis] [realname Jeremiah Scott Norris]
17:14:19 < A_D> zoite: oh I know
17:14:20 -!- CptLuxx [~quassel@about/windows/staff/CptLuxx] has joined #freenode [account CptLuxx] [realname CptLuxx]
17:14:24 < A_D> before my time, mind
17:14:29 < joepie91> applegal: I'm not sure he realizes that "Freenode" isn't a piece of technical infrastructure, but rather a community which will stay or leave with those who have stewarded it for years
17:14:33 < A_D> on snoonet when I was staff none of that shit went on
17:14:51 -!- Blankspace [~asddf@unaffiliated/blankspace] has quit [Quit: why did you ban me]
17:14:51 < milehigh-> and we're gonna ostracize the shit out of you
17:15:13 < A_D> rdv also attempted to bribe some prominent freenode community members with oper access on freenode recently
17:15:18 -!- snalty [~Shhh@host31-53-210-159.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #freenode [account snalty] [realname Got ZNC?]
17:15:18 -!- pushcx [~pushcx@lobsters/admin/pushcx] has joined #freenode [account pushcx] [realname Peter Bhat Harkins]
17:15:21 < FLHerne> joepie91: Clearly not
17:15:27 < nitrix> applegal, Obviously you gain power with forceful tactics, tyranny, extorsion and manipulation. That's what TRUE power is. Not those weak trust, respect & honor things.
17:15:44 < milehigh-> ah yes that's how you win
17:15:47 < terpri> rowbee, "ahem...sudo deop yourself!"
17:15:50 -!- mononote [~mononote@37.162.49.148] has quit [Quit: Zz]
17:15:53 < A_D> under the name `nirvana` I believe
17:15:54 < LondonNoTrust> Church-, hey i just want to be clear for the sake of transparency and communicating and all that, like just because i played a song with you about september, I still don't really like the Church at all.  I think the pope is a scam.  So nothing personal we can still do music ok?
17:15:54 < Ariadne> oh, guys, they want you know the bribe thing was "totally a joke"
17:16:09 < Ariadne> so you can read their idea of a joke here
17:16:12 < A_D> but unlike snoonet LTM can't hold the freenode servers hostage, as they don't control them
17:16:18 < Ariadne> https://distfiles.dereferenced.org/stuff/nirvana-log.txt
17:16:19 < rowbee> terpri: rasengan is not in the sudoers file.  This incident will be reported.
17:16:20 < milehigh-> they're probably just loser FEDS anyway
17:16:20 < nitrix> GG, surrender 2021. Jungler diff.
17:16:24 < milehigh-> GFY
17:16:25 < terpri> :D
17:16:26 < Church-> LondonNoTrust: Well that I just can't stand. Viva la pope-guy!
17:16:30 <@niko> rowbee: haha
17:16:33 < Church-> rowbee: kek
17:16:39 < Church-> That deserves a bash.org submit
17:16:49 < terpri> ^
17:16:53 < mason> Wow, what a fascinating read. This is kind of the model the world follows today - a monied minority pushing for control of a commons.
17:17:04 < Ariadne> i cannot wait to dependon a network where people who ask questions get bribes
17:17:09 < Ariadne> instead of answers
17:17:09 < milehigh->  A NEW WORLD ORDER
17:17:10 <@amdj> rowbee: the first time I ever saw that message (I was like 15) I shit myself, wondering who it was going to be reported to. turns out it was me.
17:17:10 < FLHerne> A_D: That's bloody ironic considering the "no mulligans" line
17:17:11 < Ariadne> its gonna be great
17:17:21 < FLHerne> Sorry, Ariadne^
17:17:22 < nitrix> mason, They don't understand "control".
17:17:34 -!- satanist is now known as pcworld
17:17:38 -!- fe80 [~fe80@gateway/tor-sasl/fe80] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:17:43 < milehigh-> Control only works if we go with your bullsheit
17:17:55 < terpri> my only bash.org entry: http://bash.org/?81744 , 'twould be an honor to show up in another one
17:18:00 < nitrix> The king is only a true king if he doesn't want to be.
17:18:06 < eeeeeta> [23:08:52] <nirvana> dont tell me that sweet revenge of a kline /fuckyou - just ONE to those people who dissed on charybdis
17:18:07 < eeeeeta> [23:08:59] <nirvana> wouldn't make you feel good
17:18:07 < rasengan> Ariadne: You and I spoke directly and as I told you before, others words dont represent mine.  You and I had our conversation.  Take from it what you will.
17:18:08 < another> amdj: not true. https://xkcd.com/838/
17:18:09 -!- pcworld is now known as satanist
17:18:10 < eeeeeta> top kek
17:18:22 < applegal> I don't think freenode can be maintained by one person... he will only force everyone to the next server.... why not just give him a @.. will he be happy with that
17:18:23 < terpri> (i was bpt back then)
17:18:24 <@amdj> another: LOL.
17:18:25 < rowbee> amdj: same tbh
17:18:29 < A_D> FLHerne: yep :D
17:18:31 < Ariadne> yeah we did rasengan
17:18:36 < Ariadne> would everyone like to read that log too?
17:18:37 < eeeeeta> clearly this is the kind of person with advanced emotional intelligence we want running IRC networks
17:18:40 < A_D> oh and theres the other mtgox person involved as well
17:18:41 < milehigh-> that reminds me of a line in that movie Dragonheart "the peasants are revolting, king!" King: "They've always been revolting!"
17:18:43 < rowbee> Ariadne: yes!
17:18:49 < rowbee> give the audience what they want
17:18:55 < rasengan> ^
17:19:00 < Darren> rasengan: Mind setting out the legal framework for your proposed changes please? Happy to take a look. :)
17:19:01 < rasengan> I'm cool with it.  Go ahead.
17:19:05 < A_D> `[19:18:07] <rasengan> Ariadne: You and I spoke directly and as I told you before, others words dont represent mine.  You and I had our conversation.  Take from it what you will.` "Other words don't represent mine" words from people in your employ representing you do EXACTLY represent you. Don't deflect
17:19:09 < barneygale> why is rasengan rping as a bond villain. I thought RP was against the rules
17:19:17 < j`ey> rasengan: is there anything legal currently going on?
17:19:18 < rowbee> hol up i've got popcorn in the micro
17:19:30 -!- goldfish [~goldfish@88.97.31.145] has joined #freenode [account goldfish] [realname realname]
17:19:30 < milehigh->  shit i hope you made enough
17:19:35 < rasengan> Darren: Yes, i will have that shortly.  Let me get back to it.
17:19:43 < mason> This is interesting. I'm betting this shows up in some future scholarly works, today's #freenode chatter. Future historians will relate it to the big picture, and students will look on in awe at their primitive forebears. Heh. Anyway, carry on. And thanks to the staff who've been doing this right for many years.
17:19:46 < Ariadne> https://distfiles.dereferenced.org/stuff/rasengan-log.txt
17:19:50 < Church-> terpri: Heh the only bash.org I can find with me in it: http://bash.org/?963026
17:19:59 < joepie91> rasengan: "other words don't represent me" is not a very credible claim from someone who has clearly used other people as a fall guy before, ref. the prawnsalad case
17:20:00 < Church-> There's another one somewhere involving a cock-ring
17:20:03 < Darren> rasengan: Are you suggesting there that you've kicked off changes without understanding the legal framework behind them?
17:20:09 < cel> hello, i just heard about this situation via the #hackerspaces channel. i wish to express my support and appreciation for the freenode volunteers. i hope the freenode project can continue as a democratically run community platform.
17:20:13 -!- fe80 [~fe80@gateway/tor-sasl/fe80] has joined #freenode [account fe80] [realname realname]
17:20:13 < milehigh-> wow you're starting to sound a little Trumpy there
17:20:22 < terpri> Church-, lol
17:20:24 < Church-> Sounds pretty not-cash money Darren
17:20:24 <@Fuchs> cel: thank you :)
17:20:41 < A_D> Darren: Nah no one would be so short sighted
17:20:44 -!- Md [~md@freenode/staff/md] has joined #freenode [account Md] [realname Marco d'Itri]
17:20:44 -!- mode/#freenode [+o Md] by ChanServ
17:20:44 < A_D> that'd be silly
17:20:45 < A_D> ohwait
17:20:47 < milehigh-> sounds pretty credit-debt money to me
17:20:55 -!- Zooker [~Thunderbi@dhcp-96-191.lavalle.mwt.net] has joined #freenode [realname Zooker]
17:20:56 < applegal> Darren: is rasengan getting a lawyer?
17:20:57 < milehigh-> or whatever the opposite of that is
17:20:58 -!- vkareh [~vkareh@mate/developer/vkareh] has joined #freenode [account vkareh] [realname Victor Kareh]
17:21:08 < Darren> applegal: I have no idea, I'm an interested bystander.
17:21:11 < Umbire> Yeah, here's hoping Freenode can remain for the community, by the community.
17:21:21 < Darren> But seeking legal advice would seem to be a prudent course of action, I would have thought.
17:21:26 <@Fuchs> Umbire: doing our very best here
17:21:39 -!- mIk3_08 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/mik3-08/x-1549088] has quit [Quit: mIk3_08]
17:21:40 < Church-> milehigh-: The opposite is my coke-addled uncle Larry in the Pocanoes
17:21:42 < milehigh-> if you're getting a lawyer to have control over freenode i hope that lawyer explains to you what an insolent little shit you are and that you can't just assume supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you
17:21:46 -!- stree [~stree@68.36.8.116] has quit [Quit: Caught exception]
17:21:51 < Church-> He's kinda a lawyer but not (anymore at least).
17:21:55 <@jess> hey umbs
17:21:55 < voidpi> rasengan: so, what corporation is your master, can you reveal that?
17:21:56 < Ariadne> [11:20:02] <Darren> rasengan: Are you suggesting there that you've kicked off changes without understanding the legal framework behind them?
17:21:57 < A_D> even if someone claims to be a lawyer, remember that they're not YOUR lawyer and while they may not lie, they also may not tell the whole truth
17:21:59 < Umbire> Finding that funnier than I should have.
17:21:59  * launchd blinks
17:22:00 < Umbire> Hey Jess.
17:22:07 -!- stree [~stree@68.36.8.116] has joined #freenode [account stree] [realname stree]
17:22:10 -!- SuperMYL [~xkass@ip-205-161-22-79.nckcn.com] has joined #freenode [account SuperMYL] [realname purple]
17:22:10 < launchd> boy did i miss a lot
17:22:11 < Ariadne> i mean, he didn't send his brightest
17:22:13 < applegal> Darren: Don't we have many lawyers here on freenode? maybe we can find one to help read the conditions set by rasengan
17:22:15 < mplsCorwin> wait. tarts, swords *and* olines now?
17:22:20 < Umbire> launchd: Likewise!
17:22:21 -!- pntaylor [~quassel@ppp121-45-199-207.cbr-trn-nor-bras38.tpg.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
17:22:24 < milehigh-> haha
17:22:24 < Church-> Quick to r/legaladvice
17:22:36 < Ariadne> one could certainly theorize that other parts of the execution might be equally lacking
17:22:40 < milehigh-> ohh man if reddit gets involved
17:22:49 < milehigh-> that could be interesting
17:22:53 < rowbee> back, what did i miss
17:22:54 < Ariadne> so anyway, mr. CEO of freenode
17:22:59 < Darren> A_D: Yes, quite. I'm particularly interested in the jurisdiction question.
17:23:00 < milehigh-> do you have popcorn
17:23:03 < rowbee> yes
17:23:05  * milehigh- holds out an empty bowl
17:23:08 < milehigh-> pls2
17:23:09 < rasengan> I think this channel is not being used for the intended purpose properly.  I want you all to be able to say your piece to and about me.  I will be in the freenode-staff-discussion channel.
17:23:13 < rowbee> /dcc milehigh- popcorn2.obj
17:23:16 < Church-> lol
17:23:21 < milehigh-> ty
17:23:24 <@Fuchs> this channel is, among other things, for discussing the freenode network
17:23:24 <@jess> scurry away
17:23:28 < A_D> Hahahahahaha
17:23:30 < launchd> don’t use dcc. they’re gonna hack you.
17:23:31 < milehigh-> ok rasengan , might wanna grab that tail between your legs
17:23:33 < Darren> rasengan: That's fine, but we're going to continue with discussions until and unless a channel staffer says otherwise.
17:23:33 <@Fuchs> I'd say it's very appropriate to have that discussion in here
17:23:33 < milehigh-> fucking loser
17:23:34 < A_D> run into a channel you can ban people in, suuure
17:23:38 < Ariadne> if you would like to do right by this community, you would hand the freenode domain over to a trusted organization like FSF or Linux Foundation or whatever
17:23:40 < A_D> god thats comical
17:23:41 -!- tos9 [~tos9@python/site-packages/tos9] has left #freenode []
17:23:41 < rowbee> shit, they're gonna find out my ip is 127.0.0.1
17:23:47 <@jess> rasengan: did you get permission from the freenode group contact to register that channel?
17:23:47 < A_D> you don't want to have this discussion in public?
17:23:49  * amdj wonders if rasengan created it in the correct namespace (##)
17:23:50 < Ariadne> but this is really about having IRC by the balls
17:23:55 < A_D> a discussion YOU started in public
17:23:56 <@jess> otherwise i might have to pull that back from you
17:23:58 -!- ExiledJ [~ExiledJ@gateway/tor-sasl/exiledj] has joined #freenode [account ExiledJ] [realname ExiledJ]
17:23:58 < A_D> god thats comical
17:24:05 < A_D> jess: HAHAHAHAHAHA
17:24:11 -!- pe [~p@216.53.broadband7.iol.cz] has joined #freenode [realname p]
17:24:14 < eeeeeta> hahahaha
17:24:15 < launchd> that’s against Terms of Use. take it over
17:24:15 < rasengan> jess: Please don't do that.  Thank you.
17:24:16 < Ariadne> how about k-line the terrorist
17:24:16 < milehigh-> jess: lmao
17:24:17 < A_D> please try again in ##freenode-staff-discussion
17:24:20 < milehigh-> ok that was great
17:24:30 < phy1729> rasengan: how about we vote on it
17:24:37 <@jess> pwease 🥺👉👈
17:24:40 < evil> !votemap
17:24:44 < Church-> rasengan he was elected to lead! Not to read! https://i.redd.it/s8104omzbd0z.jpg
17:24:45 < milehigh-> wow i am having deja vu
17:24:46 < Church-> And with that
17:24:46 -!- hoistbypetard [hoistbypet@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe50:6ee6] has joined #freenode [account hoistbypetard] [realname Coffee -> code]
17:24:50 < Church-> Time to get drugs put in me
17:24:52 < Umbire> Christ almighty, even when I fuck up because I'm in my feelings (like I did recently) I know when to cut my losses.
17:24:55 < Ariadne> go buy yourself into the crown prince family with stolen mt. gox bitcoin money
17:24:56 < Church-> Church- out!
17:24:58 < Ariadne> nobody gives a shit
17:25:01 < milehigh-> i'm gonna need some drugs after this too
17:25:08 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has left #freenode ["O bella ciao bella ciao bella ciao, ciao, ciao."]
17:25:12 < Umbire> Oh goodie, shitcoins involved in this too?
17:25:16 < A_D> Umbire: oh yes
17:25:28 < A_D> various crypto attempts and btc are involved
17:25:33 -!- pntaylor [~quassel@ppp121-45-199-207.cbr-trn-nor-bras38.tpg.internode.on.net] has joined #freenode [realname Pete]
17:25:33 -!- pntaylor [~quassel@ppp121-45-199-207.cbr-trn-nor-bras38.tpg.internode.on.net] has logged in to account pntaylor
17:25:35 < barneygale> Ariadne: interesting log, bit odd to be developing a public governance structure in private though?
17:25:44 -!- P_B [~subprime@unaffiliated/subprime] has joined #freenode [account SubPrime] [realname RogueTwo]
17:25:46 < Ariadne> barneygale: yeah i know, right
17:25:49 < nitrix> Ariadne, Nice conversation. Seems to me the question of who owns the domain got deflected though. Was that ever answered?
17:25:50 -!- vifon [~vifon@ranger/vifon] has joined #freenode [account vifon] [realname vifon]
17:25:54 -!- Tamara [~Tamara@unaffiliated/tamara] has joined #freenode [account Tamara] [realname Tamara]
17:26:02 < Ariadne> nitrix: oh i can answer that
17:26:06 < Umbire> Glorious techno-capital, also known as "corpo shit but with more computers".
17:26:17 < Ariadne> christel threw us all under the bus and gave the domain over to mr. "CEO of freenode" over there
17:26:26 -!- SuperMYL [~xkass@ip-205-161-22-79.nckcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:26:27 < rasengan> It wasn't in private.  We attempted to do it with tomaw.
17:26:30 < rasengan> He is very well aware of it.
17:26:31 -!- qwedfg [~qwedfg@194.177.28.161] has quit [Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in]
17:26:34 -!- Kalov [~Thunderbi@179.56.117.154] has joined #freenode [account Kalov] [realname Kalov]
17:27:01 < rasengan> When he asked me if he could be the owner of the domain, my response was "I want a decentralized entity to control freenode."
17:27:05 < nitrix> Ariadne, Fuck, that's as bad as I thought.
17:27:05 < eeeeeta> rasengan: but evidently you didn't involve the people who actually operate the network right now
17:27:17 < rasengan> eeeeeta: tomaw holds himself out to be head of staff, so yes, I did.
17:27:21 -!- Alexendoo [~Alex@macleod.io] has joined #freenode [account Alexendoo] [realname Alex]
17:27:22 < milehigh-> can we k-line him lol
17:27:22 -!- qwedfg [~qwedfg@194.177.28.161] has joined #freenode [account qwedfg] [realname qwedfg]
17:27:25 <@Fuchs> gee, right now freenode is a decentralized entity of volunteers that controls freenode
17:27:26 < Ariadne> ^
17:27:27 <@Fuchs> and has been
17:27:28 -!- CordialCatto [cordialcat@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/cordialcatto] has joined #freenode [account CordialCatto] [realname CordialCatto]
17:27:30 <@Fuchs> for, like, 20 years
17:27:34 < Ariadne> nah fuchs
17:27:38 <@niko> BREAKING NEWS
17:27:40 < Ariadne> rasengan is CEO of freenode
17:27:40 < badastronaut> rasengan: don't you wish you had power here so you could silence everyone who is absolutely raking you over the coals right now?
17:27:48 < rasengan> No.
17:27:51 < eeeeeta> rasengan: I didn't think there was a head of staff who speaks on behalf of the rest of them
17:27:55 -!- melgust [~melgust@45.77.199.154] has joined #freenode [realname Melvin Cali]
17:27:58 <@amdj> rasengan: tomaw doesn't claim to be anything. christel resigned and we (all, collectively) elected tomaw to the head of staff position. tomaw had nothing to do with it. if you're going to keep up with these lies I'm going to mute you.
17:28:00 < rasengan> eeeeeta: Tell that to tomaw.
17:28:01 < FLHerne> rasengan: The table of organisation in your head doesn't seem to map to how the network's actually operated
17:28:08 < FLHerne> Or who does it
17:28:10 < zoite> rasengan, can I be assistant regional manager?
17:28:15 < eeeeeta> rasengan: ah, but you're the one trying to claim control here, not tomaw
17:28:23 < rasengan> amdj: Not lies, and don't mute me.
17:28:35 < rasengan> I'm not trying to claim control.
17:28:38 <@Fuchs> as said, the /people page and the blog post are well archived
17:28:39 < A_D> You have
17:28:39 < P_B> nah, give him more rope, amdj
17:28:40 <@niko> where you on staff meetings ? odds
17:28:41 < A_D> in this channel
17:28:41 -!- jescis-Desktop1 [~jescis@c-66-177-166-232.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
17:28:43 < A_D> before
17:28:44 < rasengan> I prevented him from taking control and suggested creating a decentralized entity to own the network.
17:28:46 < Ariadne> rasengan: then hand the domain over to a reputable org
17:28:46 <@Fuchs> the people of freenode elected teams and heads
17:28:54 < eeeeeta> rasengan: a few days ago you instructed the freenode staff to give kevinp admin access
17:28:58 <@Fuchs> someone, I'd have to assume you, had us remove that democratic process
17:29:00 < eeeeeta> rasengan: that sounds like taking control to me
17:29:07 <@Fuchs> and you started asking staffers to hand you access over
17:29:10 <@Fuchs> which we obviously can't
17:29:11 -!- xander [~xander@unaffiliated/xander] has joined #freenode [account xander] [realname xander]
17:29:17 <@Fuchs> since we have absolutely no way to verify your claims
17:29:17 -!- legoktm [~quassel@wikipedia/Legoktm] has joined #freenode [account legoktm] [realname legoktm]
17:29:22 < slimdaddy> zoite assistant _to_ the regional manager*
17:29:27 < Ariadne> rasengan: do you need help with this?  i can get you in touch with anyone at any reputable org, they all return my phone calls i assure you
17:29:35 <@Fuchs> so ... uh ... it does look a bit like it was the people who ran it, and you are trying to take control, at least to uninformed me
17:29:40 < launchd> to randomly replace staff with your own is grossly disrespectful to the tireless work that they put into making this network run well
17:29:54  * eeeeeta just doesn't really understand what the plan was
17:30:00 -!- specing [~specing@unaffiliated/specing] has joined #freenode [account specing] [realname me myself and I, 3in1 package!]
17:30:02 < rasengan> Ariadne: I've spoke to many.  I'm going to be refraining from communicating in here since amdj says he is going to mute me.  I'm in the freenode-staff-discussion channel.  If you don't wish to converse with me thats fine.  Enjoy talking about me.
17:30:02 < Ariadne> there wasn't any plan
17:30:05 < Ariadne> just bong rips
17:30:08 < P_B> not to mention all the publicly funded donors in universities and whatnot
17:30:08 -!- jescis-Desktop1 [~jescis@c-66-177-166-232.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #freenode [account jescis] [realname Jeremiah Scott Norris]
17:30:09 < eeeeeta> like, sure, you want to make IRC better; don't we all
17:30:11 <@dho> amdj will not be muting anybody.
17:30:13 < eeeeeta> but why do so forcefully
17:30:15 < A_D> launchd: you mean exactly what they tried with snoonet :D
17:30:18 < terpri> amdj, wow, that kind of sounds like you're already a decentralized entity! what a coincidence!
17:30:19 -!- rasengan [~rasengan@freenode/sponsor/shells/rasengan] has left #freenode ["The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat"]
17:30:23 < A_D> when they, shoved someone into the lead position
17:30:23 < _habnabit> PERHAPS BONGHITS WILL FIX MY NETWORK
17:30:25 < A_D> AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
17:30:28 < Ariadne> damn
17:30:34 < A_D> god can't even take a line of questioning about your own lies
17:30:35 <@kline> fwiw
17:30:36 < barneygale> Well, I'm willing to do my part
17:30:41  * eeeeeta funcalls terpri
17:30:43 < CptLuxx> who the fuck is rasengan even?
17:30:44 -!- Fusxfaranto [~Fusxfaran@cpe-75-85-179-208.san.res.rr.com] has joined #freenode [account Fusxfaranto] [realname Fusxfaranto]
17:30:46 < Darren> I know that feels like a win, but it isn't. There needs to be dialogue to resolve that.
17:30:46 <@kline> people putting him in his place here is good
17:30:48 < Umbire> ...so is that channel like, legit against TOS?
17:30:53 <@kline> but we need this kind of stuff discussed more broadly
17:30:54 < Ariadne> i was going to ask him if he was bullied this hard on DALnet
17:30:55 < terpri> eeeeeta,
17:31:03 < terpri> saluton Fusxfaranto
17:31:09 < launchd> Umbire: no
17:31:09 < Tamara> all hail our new god emperor rasengan
17:31:10 < eeeeeta> :)
17:31:24 < Ariadne> i've said it before and i'll say it again
17:31:25 -!- glix [~glix@unaffiliated/glix] has joined #freenode [account glix] [realname glix]
17:31:26 < A_D> actual dialog needs to happen agreed Darren, preferably in public
17:31:27 < CptLuxx> he sounds like an idiot
17:31:31 < milehigh-> i'm here for the bong rips
17:31:32 < A_D> but he needs to be knocked down a notch
17:31:35 < milehigh-> and popcorn
17:31:40 < Ariadne> despite having disagreements with freenode staffers in the past
17:31:42 < Umbire> Agreeing with Darren and kline here.
17:31:43 < terpri> * bull (~bull@imperialfamily.com) has left ("The China Shop")
17:31:46 < Ariadne> i trust people like jess and kline
17:31:52 < Ariadne> and fuchs
17:31:55 < Ariadne> they are good people
17:31:57 < Umbire> ^
17:32:02 < slimdaddy> ^^
17:32:04 < Ariadne> rasengan is clearly a fuckwit
17:32:07 < Darren> A_D: Yes, but also the further you back someone into a corner the harder they will fight.
17:32:09 < Ariadne> i see no reason to trust him
17:32:09 <@kline> the problem is, we need the broader community to speak in our support
17:32:10 <@Fuchs> thank you ♥
17:32:11 < Ariadne> so i don't
17:32:13 <@kline> not just us in here
17:32:14 < A_D> Darren: true
17:32:15 <@Fuchs> really means much to me
17:32:18 < wgreenhouse> oh my.
17:32:18 < wgreenhouse> > ChanServ (ChanServ@services.): Channel #freenode-staff-discussion is not registered.
17:32:18 < Umbire> Indeed.
17:32:21 < nitrix> rasengan, Seems to me like the existing staff have build trust with one another over the years and when christel left, they collectively restructured. Instead of letting things just be and giving the domain to them, you're now advocating for a completely "decentralize ownership" that amounts to "I want it". Why not just let them do their thing? They know how to operate the network. It's theirs. And you can earn their trust gradually.
17:32:25 < Umbire> How do you suggest we go about that.
17:32:26 <@kline> so please, take what happened here back to your organisations and projects
17:32:26 <@jess> he's gone nitrix 
17:32:33 < squirrel> eli5 what does it even mean that a company “owns” freenode? what exactly do they own? domain name? servers?
17:32:38 < Ariadne> kline: i already did
17:32:38 < phy1729> kline: AND MY AXE
17:32:41 < nitrix> jess, It was a long message to type D:
17:32:42 < Umbire> I legit don't even know what's going on yet fully but he's clearly conducting himself without integrity.
17:32:45 < A_D> I might have a little bit of animosity over snoonet. I thought I was over that, but I'm apparently at least a little angry still. Darren
17:32:52 < Ariadne> kline: we are literally having a vote on what to do on sunday
17:32:53 < P_B> when did christel leave?
17:32:54 <@kline> Ariadne, ideally in support of freenode with a view to improve later :^)
17:32:54 <@Md> squirrel: we wonder as well!
17:32:54 < P_B> and why?
17:32:55 < barneygale> He's making the right noises about transferring the domain to a reputable org. I suggest that should be the main objective.
17:33:05 -!- hoistbypetard [hoistbypet@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe50:6ee6] has left #freenode []
17:33:09 < Darren> That's what I asked, squirrel. It doesn't seem like there is a framework yet, which does feel somewhat like putting the cart before the horse.. :)
17:33:15 < Ariadne> kline: i am unable to support freenode with the domain under rasengan's control sorry
17:33:21 < Ariadne> if there is a plan to rectify this
17:33:26 < Ariadne> i would support 100%
17:33:34 < A_D> yeah
17:33:37 < MIF> if he shows his face around my IRC network, he will be banned on the spot
17:33:38 < rowbee> damn fun's over
17:33:39 < MIF> Sturtz Netowkr fully supports  freenode and the freenode project
17:33:40 < A_D> whoops wrong chat
17:33:43 -!- earne1 [~earne@198.98.56.74] has joined #freenode [account earne] [realname earne]
17:33:46 -!- Shadeblast [~Matthew@unaffiliated/shadeblast] has joined #freenode [account Shadeblast] [realname ZNC - https://znc.in]
17:33:48 < MIF> *Sturtz Network
17:34:00 <@Fuchs> Ariadne: hard to say at this point really, but as you figured, we as freenode staff don't appear to be wanting to work under his node should he get a node
17:34:13 < barneygale> Resign en masse on June 1st if he hasn't transferred the domain to someone reputable?
17:34:23 < launchd> i think freenode should be left as is. it’s really a great network run by experts who care deeply about the projects on it. projects depend on freenode and making these changes seems like it would just fuck that all up.
17:34:24 < Umbire> Yeah, I wanna bring this up in the project channels I frequent on here, but given I learned of this like
17:34:30 < Umbire> 1.25 hours ago
17:34:37 < Umbire> I'm not even sure where to start
17:34:42 <@Fuchs> we would gladly continue to run this network as we did, for and including our lovely communities, but there are some red lines. And I'm afraid, as I wrote above, hell would freeze over twice before me working for any kind of corperation that took us over
17:34:47 < launchd> anyways that’s my rant
17:34:48 < A_D> MIF: make sure that he doesn't decide to try and buy it
17:34:52 < GermainZ> Is there a website or similar we can follow for updates from the freenode staff regarding this?
17:34:53 < MIF> He can't
17:35:04 < MIF> I am the only owner
17:35:14 < MIF> I own the name, domain, servers,
17:35:15 <@Md> GermainZ: sure: it's https://freenode.net/, we usually post our updates there
17:35:17 <@amdj> GermainZ: our own blog.
17:35:30 < phy1729> I wonder if you could dispute ownership with ICANN
17:35:39 < GermainZ> Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thought freenode.net was problematic since it was brought up a few times?
17:35:55 < MIF> and A_D I don't take any money for anything
17:35:55 < P_B> There's very likely a lot of legal options at this point. Someone has to pay for lawyer time though.
17:35:57 < MIF> at all
17:36:00 < gurki> amdj: i didnt feel like this already has converged towards some kind of consensus what is to be considered to have happened. am i mistaken?
17:36:01 < A_D> MIF: good
17:36:24 < rowbee> web7 is all statically generated, so a github pages backup may be good if the freenode.net domain is in jeopardy
17:36:40 < P_B> I'll chip in a 20 if the staff want to go down that road. As I'm sure will hundreds of others.
17:36:49 < MIF> I would if I could
17:36:56 <@amdj> as rowbee points out, our blog is created from  https://github.com/freenode/web-7.0  if you don't want to trust our domain.
17:37:04 < Darren> P_B: I'll reserve judgement until they lay the legal framework out, but I'd also imagine plenty of people willing to support pro bono too.
17:37:05 < squirrel> i have no monies, i'll be sending acorns
17:37:06 < MIF> but I support Freenode 100%
17:37:14 < Umbire> Likewise.
17:37:15 < terpri> P_B, likewise
17:37:16 < superkuh> I hope you guys can resolve this without alienating anyone, even rasengan. Freenode is a home for many of us. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj4551M2Qjk
17:37:17 < pseudo> Why Can&#39;t We Be Friends? - YouTube
17:37:24 < P_B> Yes, I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case also, Darren
17:37:28 -!- earne1 [~earne@198.98.56.74] has left #freenode ["Leaving (TheLounge on https://chat.earne.link)"]
17:37:35 < GermainZ> Thanks :)
17:37:36 -!- VintageComputer [~VintageCo@1-36-154-109.static.netvigator.com] has joined #freenode [account VintageComputer] [realname VintageComputer]
17:37:48 < terpri> hopefully it won't come to that
17:37:50 < Darren> If it's just a domain dispute, probably pretty straight forward.
17:38:01 < MIF> Darren: it is more then that I think
17:38:02 < rowbee> how'd the friggin bot get in here
17:38:12 <@amdj> (specifically, the content/news/ subdirectory)
17:38:20 < FLHerne> Md: Which 'faction', or whatever, controls the website atm?
17:38:30 < Darren> MIF: Quite possibly, but the legal basis gets weaker the further you go down more extreme routes, I think
17:38:32 < barneygale> Smiley-face pass-agg faction
17:38:33 < rowbee> the fire nation
17:38:36 <@Fuchs> website: us   domain: him
17:38:40 <@Md> FLHerne: there are no factions. the network and the web site are controlled by freenode staff
17:38:40 < FLHerne> The archive links would suggest rasengan etc.
17:38:43 < evilrails> Holy shit it's md
17:38:56 < FLHerne> Who clearly doesn't represent "the Freenode staff" as I'd understand the term
17:39:04 <@amdj> I'd elaborate a bit.   website: us. DNS hosting: us. domain: him.
17:39:05 < Darren> That's my impression of just the tidbits I've seen though, there could be a 'zinger' that hasn't been disclosed yet but it seems unlikely.
17:39:30 < GermainZ> So they can't make the freenode.net domain point to another website?
17:39:33 < MIF> is there anything that we don't know
17:39:36 -!- ggreer [sid252791@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xcqiyyraownziitv] has joined #freenode [account ggreer] [realname Geoff Greer]
17:39:37 <@Fuchs> FLHerne: correct, freenode staff are volunteers that don't have contracts with *
17:39:38 < MIF> GermainZ: correct
17:39:44 < GermainZ> Cool, thanks
17:39:51 <@amdj> GermainZ: only by changing the nameservers. that's one of the situations we drafted our resignation letters for.
17:39:55 < Darren> It's definitely telling that the gist of the conversation in here is that the answer to "what's the legal basis" was essentially "We're working on that"
17:40:11 < another> Fuchs: yoiu don't have contracts with anyone? how do you get power, water, etc.?
17:40:15 < Umbire> As was said, very "horse before cart"
17:40:16 < MIF> lol
17:40:20 <@Fuchs> Darren: would be my guess, I hope you understand that we thus had to turn down the various requests we got from multiple people to just hand stuff over
17:40:27 -!- nicolas17 [~nicolas@kde/nalvarez] has joined #freenode [account PovAddict] [realname Nicolás Alvarez]
17:40:34 < barneygale> GermainZ: incorrect; he can change the nameservers to his own, and then point the nameservers elsewhere.
17:40:37 <@Fuchs> another: we live in a neat little forest and we have trained rats on threadmills
17:40:37 < Ariadne> as i said previously, the only way i can trust the reliability of this network is if the network assets are held by a trustworthy organization
17:40:46 -!- sarthor [~sarthor@unaffiliated/sarthor] has joined #freenode [account Sarthor] [realname Zubair]
17:40:47 < Darren> Umbire: Cart before horse* :p but yes
17:40:53 <@Fuchs> Ariadne: that's sensitive
17:40:53 < Umbire> ;b
17:40:54 < Ariadne> freenode staff must be able to operate the network autonomously
17:40:58 < rubenwardy> Fuchs <3
17:40:58 <@mniip> I have a contract with my employer Fuchs
17:40:58 < thumbs> Fuchs: an, there is where the cloaks come from
17:41:00 < rowbee> netsplits happen when the rats get tired
17:41:03 < PipeItToDevNull> Everything appears to be in the air still. Will final decisions be published at freenode.net?
17:41:04 < rubenwardy> * :D
17:41:05 < A_D> if he changed the DNS he'd really make people angry
17:41:05 <@Fuchs> rubenwardy: hi!
17:41:09 <@mniip> luckily my employer has nothing to do with this picture :P
17:41:12 < Ariadne> Fuchs: you're sensitive
17:41:14 <@Fuchs> rubenwardy: I see you joined the fun
17:41:15 <@Md> PipeItToDevNull: we expect to, yes
17:41:16 < A_D> and then freenode could just, you know, point someone elses DNS at it
17:41:19 < another> Fuchs: IPoAC ?
17:41:20 < A_D> I'd offer mine
17:41:24 < rubenwardy> yeah, I have no idea what's going on but \o/
17:41:26 <@Fuchs> Ariadne: err, sorry, sensible
17:41:34 <@Fuchs> Ariadne: multitasking here, excuse my English going to trash
17:41:39 < Ariadne> Fuchs: you're still sensitive <3
17:41:42 < MIF> lol
17:41:43 < Umbire> lmfao <3
17:41:43 <@Fuchs> *g*
17:41:47 <@Fuchs> I have very soft fur, okay!
17:41:47 < locotus> ya llego  mi ropa pro rms a miami
17:41:48 < barneygale> There's probably a lot of freenode users willing to donate their four-character domain names they registered 25 years ago.